InfamousRS

For basicaly a B20/vtec turbo, would the t3/t4 be a good choice? I was reading last night that a T-60 would be a better choice. If I choose to go with that turbo would it take hours(not literaly) to spool up? How much bigger is the T-60 than a T3/T4?

ArizonaTurbo

If you aren't worried about full boost until 4500 rpms, I would say go with:

T3/T04E
.82 A/R Housing
Stage III Turbine

.60 A/R Housing
60 Trim Compressor Wheel

This turbo is good for 450-475 whp!

If you are looking for relatively quick spool, ~ 2800-3500 rpms I say go with:

T3/T04E
.63 A/R Housing
Stage III Turbine

.50 A/R Housing
50 Trim Compressor Wheel

This turbi is good for 350-425 whp!

I hope this helps!

InfamousRS

Which would be better for top end?

What are the specs on the turbo that comes with the MaxRev setup? Would this be a good turbo?


[Modified by BLK94RS, 9:10 PM 12/14/2001]

sgT

is tehre such thing as

T4E/T3
Stage 3 .63 A/R

.60 A/R compressor?

boosted3g

yes, there is such a turbo

sgT

How much power would that be good for?

And what is a 60-1 or Super 60

ArizonaTurbo

60-1 is part of the T04B Compressor Family and Super 60 is part of the T3 Compressor Family.

The .63 A/R Turbine housing w/ Stage III Turbine & .60 A/R Compressro Housing w/ 60 Trim Compressor wheel is good for 350-375 whp!

This turbo is a T3/T04E!

ArizonaTurbo

The .82 A/R Housing will flow *A LOT* more than the .63 A/R Housing. The .82 A/R housing has *WICKED* top end! The .63 A/R housing is a great turbo for the street. Less lag.

The Max-Rev kit comes with a T3/T04E , .63 A/R Housing w/ Stage III turbine & .60 A/R housing w/ 57 trim compressor. This is the turbo that I put on my buddy's B18C1 powered Civic Hatch that just ran an 11.3 @ 123 mph, so the turbo can flow and is good for the street.

If you are looking for 300-350 whp get the .63 A/R housing.

If you are looking for 400-500 whp get the .82 A/R housing.

93LSivic

Would this turbo be good for an LS motor considering the lower redline of 7000 RPM's? I am in the market for a turbo (I decided to scrap my junkyard turbo). I was thinkg a 48 turbine stage3 with a 57 trim and not sure of the compressor size. But now im thinking a 63 turbine and 50 compressor? What do you think? I have a stock top and bottom end and looking for 6-10 street/race form. Wouldnt mind full boost as late as 4500 but want to start boosting around 2800-3200. Thanks......

BlueShadow

I agree with sgT,
.60 A/R compressor? don't you mean .60 TRIM? A/R is what they use to measure the size of the turbine fans.

EDIT: I went to http://www.turbocharged.com under the turbonetics catalog I couldn't find "A/R " anywhere in the compressor housing sizes. http://64.225.76.178/catalog/comp_wheels.html


[Modified by BlueShadow, 8:59 AM 12/15/2001]


[Modified by BlueShadow, 9:01 AM 12/15/2001]

BlueShadow

just out of curiousity how much boost do you plan on running? and I'm not very familiar with a B20/VTEC swap, what is your redline and displacement with that setup?

ArizonaTurbo

.60 A/R is the T04E Compressor Housing!
60 Trim is the T04E Compressor Wheel!

.63 A/R is the T3 Exhaust Housing!
Stage III is the T3 Turbine!

I know what I am talking about!

ArizonaTurbo

If you want a bad *** street car with nice top end and not too much lag, would recommend th T3/T04E

.63 A/R Turnbine Housing
Stage III Turbine

.50 A/R Compressor Housing
50 Trim Compressor

This turbo won't fall off up top like the .48 A/R turbine housing will and you will still have pretty good spool for the street. The 50 trim compressor will still flow a pretty good amount of air. This turbo will be able to produce 300 whp without any problems!

TurboSedan

Yes, the .48 A/R is good for the lowly D16 like what I have hehe.
I have the Stage III wheel to help it out a bit though!
For the B20, the .63 A/R with a T4OE like they recommend above will be kick ***!

BlueShadow

Thats weird... I've just never heard of the compressor housing measured in A/R thats all. turbines yes, but compessor housings no. that's just me though doesn't mean you're wrong.

another thing.. ease up on the exclamation points there guy.

EDIT: I finally found a reference to what you were talking about, http://64.225.76.178/gtbb.htm had GT charts which measured the A/R's of both comp. and turbine's. sorry for doubting you, you're ok in my book




[Modified by BlueShadow, 5:01 PM 12/15/2001]

boosted3g

If im not mistaken the t04E family of turbos can only be had in a .50 or .60 A/R also. Im not possitive on this but i have never seen any other sizes.

InfamousRS

I won't actually be using a b20 block, Im going to have a b18b block resleeved to 84.5mm by Golden Eagle. The only differnce between the b20 and b18b block is the bore, they both have the same 89mm stroke. I sourced a block that I will probably be buying around this time next month. I will use a b16 head with GSR cams. The engine will displace a smigin more than what the b20 does being that the stock bore of a b20 is 84mm. I don't remember the exact cubic cc's, but its right around 2000. I plan on having a Redline of 8500. I will of course upgraded the valve springs and retainers on the head though.

InfamousRS

Oh, I would like to run 1 bar on the street, and alot more when Im at the track(maybe once or twice a year).

The closest Stip to me is WoodBurn Drag strip in Oregon. It about 3 hours 1 way. There is a 1/8 mile strip about 45 minutes away though, that might be fun still.

bigTom

a/r stands for aspect ratio and is how u measure the size of housings... exh and comp... .60 trim, .58 trim... those are wheel sizes... on the comp side that is... on the exhaust side... well... just some examples... stages 2, 3 and 5 and then they have n, o, p, q... t3 housings come in A/R'S of .36, .48, .63, and .82... t4 housings come in differant shapes and sizes... largest i see here in the turbonetics catalogis an a/r of 1.52 for a tang/divided housing

as fore trims and what turbo u want... there is so much stuff to consider...... its still a lot of r/d going on...

degradated

If you are worried about spoolability, get ball bearing center section on any of the above (I believe turbonetics offers this option for any custom turbo). That will save you approx. 500 rpms in terms of how long it will spool. Also employ a free flowing 3" exhaust setup, boost controller to keep the wastegate shut until full boost, and you should take off some of the lag.
Then get a bigger compressor wheel so that you will be pushing more top end power, but still have good spool time.

Louis, I have a t3/t04E 0.63 A/R, 0.54 compressor with stage III wheel. How much hp would you say mine is good for? I never really knew, but I assumed over 400.

InfamousRS

Im not really worried about spool up time, as long as it will hit full boost before 3800 or so.

Kinda off topic: Do you want Vtec to kick in before or after the tubro spools up? And do you feel Vtec crossover on a turboed car?

Dee

I mainly deal with Garrett Japan and HKS Japan parts but T04E compressors are AR. 50 and AR.60 with the blade trims being 42, 47, 54 and 57. The 42 and 47 trim blades are for the AR.50 housing and the 54 and 57 trims are for the AR.60 housing. The only thing the 60-1 and T04B compressors have in common is the compressor housing clamps. T3 ex housings range from AR.36 to AR. 1.15 ..

The AR.82 housings does produce more top end power but really doesn't meab anything if the motor isn't built to match the turbos usable power range. A T04E(57T)/T3 (stage 3) AR.63 with a 3" DP and exhaust will be bootyliciuos for a street/strip car.

BlueShadow

actually A/R stands for : Area and Radius ratio (A/R ratio) that I am sure of. and actually selecting a compressor trim is pretty easy, all you need to know is what boost you plan to run, what your redline is, and your engine size. thats just the compressor though, apart from that you have the turbine, intercooler, IC piping, fuel system, etc.

Dee

people use ASPECT RATIO and AREA/RADIUS..

the meaning of AR has been explained to me two different ways:

1). Divide the smallest diameter of the compressor outlet by the radius of the compressor housing (diameter of the back plate divided by two).

2). Divide the area of the compressor housing by the smallest diameter of the compressor outlet.

Ans #1 came from an HKS tech rep and ans #2 came from a Greddy tech rep. I did a lot of research and ans#1 seems to be the most correct. I just measured one of my extra T3 housings just to be sure.

Inside of the compressor housing outlet is an AR.60 stamp.
The backplate diameter is 132mm
The smallest diameter of the outlet was 39.5mm. I used a straighten paper clip and a micrometer to measure this.

132/2 = 66= radius of backplate
39.5/66 = .5984 or AR.60


If somebody else has info please bring it forward because I am tired of looking for better answer.

BlueShadow

AHEM... I quote Corky Bell,

Choosing an A/R ratio
While basic turbine size reflects a measure of the turbine's flow capability, the A/R ratio is a method of fine tuning between basic sizes. To easily grasp the idea of an A/R ratio, imagine the turbine housing as nothing more than a cone wrapped around a shaft to look like a snail. Unwrap this cone and cut off the small end a short distance from the tip.

The hole in the end of the cone is the discharge area. The area of this hole is the A of the A/R ratio. The size of the hole is significant, as it determines the velocity with which exhaust gases exit the turbine scroll and enter the turbine blades. For any given rate of fow, a smaller exit will require that the gases flow faster. Thus, the the area of the exit is important in controlling the velocity of the gases as they enter the turbine blades. This velocity has much to do with controlling the actual speed of the turbine. It is necessary to keep in mind that the area of this exit is the controlling factor in the bad side-effect of exhaust gas back pressure and, thus, reversion into the combustion chambers.

The R of the A/R ratio is the distance from the center of the section area in the cone to the center of the turbine shaft. All A's divided by their respective R's will give the same dividend. The R also has a strong influenceon controlling turbine speed. If one imagines that the turbine blade tips will travel about as fast as the gas is moving when it enters the tip area, it is easy to see that a smaller R will impart a higher rotating speed to the turbine.

It is of further value to note that a larger R will effectively give the turbine shaft greater torque with which to drive the compressor wheel.

Selecting what appears to be a logical starting point for an A/R ratio is one thing, but actually getting the right one is yet another. Trial-and-Error is usually necessary. A reasonable choice can be judged by the numbers, or to some extent by performance and response. Judging by the numbers requires measurement of exhaust manifold pressure, or turbine inlet pressure, and comparison with boost pressure.


[Modified by BlueShadow, 10:07 AM 12/16/2001]