Junaid K

Hi all,
I have a question regarding a stroker kit on my b16a, combined with boost.

See here for more info regarding the build, my part list & pics of the kit:
https://honda-tech.com/forums/forced-induction-16/b1750-turbo-2925252/

I want to purchase the following parts for a stroker kit as I'm getting them pretty cheap:

Eagle Crank: 1633341772 (84.7mm)
Eagle rods: 5290H0 (standard length 134mm)
Will need custom or Arias 84/85mm pistons, but what comp?

If my calculations are correct, this is what I will have:
Bore: 84mm
Stroke: 84.7mm
Rod length: 134mm
Capacity: 1876.5cc
Rod Ratio: 1.58:1

or

Bore: 85mm
Stroke: 84.7mm
Rod length: 134mm
Capacity: 1921.5cc
Rod Ratio: 1.58:1

My power goal will be upward of 500whp ultimately.

I have a few concerns, like the increase in the side wall loading, the rod ratio, although it seems fine, but mostly about the pistons.

With these pistons, will wrist pin be moved higher up & will it compromise the strength of the ring lands by making them narrower?
What about the oil ring groove? Will the wrist pin need to go through it, & if so is there a steel rail under the oil ring for support.
Are there any issues with the pistons rocking excessively in the bores?

The bottom line is I need to know that this setup will work & last, as it is for a daily driven street car, that will be used for strip & track on weekends.

Any advice will be appreciated...

ACKPerformance

Even tho your getting the parts cheap honestly why go threw all that hassel when a sleeved b16 could make 500whp. Thats fine for the track but you said it will be daily driven and with 500whp your not gonna be able to / want to really drive on the streets anyways. So while your on the streets if you turn down the power a B16 will make that power easly. So it might not be want to wated to hear but I wouldent go threw the hassel and would try to convince my customers not to as well

Goodluck

Turbo-LS

iTrader: (4)

Eagle stroker kits are garbage, the cranks are junk, leave crank stock

Junaid K

Its really not going to cost all that much more. I am picking it up for around $500 and I have a new set of 84mm Wiseco pistons & Eagle rods to flog to cover the cost. I'm going to be sleeving the block irrespective.

Am I wrong in saying more capacity = more torque? We have a saying locally: "there's no replacement for displacement". I will be running against V8 M3's, E63's, OPC's, Focus ST's & RS's, G5's & 6's, S13's & S14's, etc. All these cars are running big power & torque.

The fact that I am going to use the car as a daily is immaterial. I don't need it to be a performance car on the weekdays, because I will turn the boost down. I travel a cumulative 15km's to work & back & thats in heavy traffic, so there isn't any opportunity to push the car. Honestly, I would not even if there was. On the weekends, however, when the going gets tough........

I want UPWARD of 500whp eventually. Increasing the capacity, to me, is leaving allowance for upgrading, & a b16 has its limitations. A b19 will be quicker.

Why not b20, you ask. I don't want to have to take the car for inspection after changing the motor. There is a strong chance it won't pass because the motor has not been replaced with one of equal capacity & its modified. In Durban, modified cars are seriously frowned upon. So b16 it is.

Having said that, your opinion?

Junaid K

Damn!!! Thats not what I want to hear, but it is what it is, if that is genuinely the case. Have you had direct experience with these kits?
If it failed, how?

Anybody with experience to the contrary?

wolve

V8 M3's= eat these for breakfast, stock or somewhat souped.
OPC's, Focus ST's & RS's= i don't even turn on the nitrous for those slow *** peaces of junk....

my mate raced a v8 m3 in his 256whp 4door civic (mild GSR + 50shot), he pulled 3-4 lengths on him in a 40-120mph pull. he also kept up with a aston martin DBS on the highway (60-120mph).

i humiliated supercharged e46 m3's at the track (missing 2nd gear and still catching up at 1000ft) and v10 M6's i kept up with without spray on the quarter mile. my setup was a 193whp NA 300ish whp N2O EJ1 on streettires.

if you have a 500whp b16 (stock stroke) you'll be running 10's and have lot's of fun on the street. altough a b16 has it's limits, those limits are further away then you think. people have run 9's and 700+whp on b16's!!!

if you insist on stroking, find a oem b17 crank, MUCH better bet then a Eagle crank, those are somewhat of a hit or miss item....

Junaid K

Lol, having some fun there!!!

I'm not too concerned about the lower powered cars, although there are some pushing serious power. I stand corrected, but there is a Focus RS pushing over 400wkw & 600Nm. The E63's are modded. There is an A2 quattro that has run 10.9sec 1/4 mile. There are several quick R35 GTR's in the 10's. ALL these are street cars in FULL trim.

I have a point to prove with a little 4 cylinder with a b16 stamp on the block.

BTW, there are no b17's in SA. Integra, if I recall. I would have to import the crank, & it cost me far more than this stroker kit.

Junaid K

So I've shelved the idea of a stroked b16, which means its decision time.

Bear in mind the purpose of the car, on the weekends anyway, is to be a very quick 1/4 mile, traffic light to trffic light racer & not a top-end car, although a decent top end would be great.

I figured on getting a b18b block & sleeving it for 84mm pistons, making some big power with just a bigger turbo & dealing with the inspection problem later. Problem is the crap rod/stroke ratio. So I did a bit of research & came up with this:

Quote:
That is the best turbo block you can buy for a Honda, Bar None. B16A, 1.7 liters. Now, if you can have 300+ WHP at 10 PSI, and a torque curve like that, as flat as a table top, your car is going to rip.
b
Since the maximum wheel horsepower your FWD on the street with any kind of real driving experience is about 350-375, then your magic motor is going to have near that HP and the lowest amount of torque possible.

That's the formula for speed.

Since your only boosting 10 PSI on the shortest stroke, slowest piston speed and widest, head treated bearings Honda makes for the B series, reliability is also the best you can buy. And no, nothing is faster on the street than a b16A turbo. This is not V8 racing where you get the biggest motor you can to go fast.

We don't have the whole weight of the car pushing down on the rear wheels to gain traction with, its the opposite. All the weight is taken off the front wheels when we accelerate so we want the least amount of torque possible to remain attached to the ground with maximum traction.
The above graph runs 11.30's - 11.50's in 92-95 civic hatchbacks at the track with slicks. And that is at 10 PSI with the stock map sensor. How many other cars do you see doing that at 10 PSI? With full street trim and no fiberglass or cutting?
Its called the science of speed.

FWD wants top end, and low mid range torque. This is the best you can do, bar none. Do not be fooled and talked into something else for turbo, there is no better.

B16A turbo motors ran 9's in the year 2000, mid 9's. Now you see many 2 liter race teams, with 300+ more WHP running the same times. And many with 600+ running mid 10's. Why do I need 600+ on a 2 liter when less than 500 WHP can run 9's with a B16A absolutely proven, done and recorded. Lesson learned.

Big HP graphs look cool on the internet, but those cars are not near even close to as reliable, and multitudes harder to drive.

Try a 350-400 WHP B16A block, in 1.7 liter trim. Once you have one, you will never buy a 2 liter again, ever. And shoot, the 320+ WHP at 10 PSI, that is on stock US B16A cams. Stock cams!


Is the referance here pertaining to the sleeving of the b16a to accomodate 84mm pistons, so effectively a b1715 & still maintaining a 1.73:1 rod/stroke ratio? Is there truth to this?

So what now? Do I build an 84mm b16a reliable & still capable of reving to 10 000, based on my part list? Obviously, my SC32 will run out of steam before that, so I will need an upgrade. I have been told my manual GSR cams will do the trick.

So it's a new turbo, but will I need to go back to a b16 vtec box & stick the Quaife LSD in there, or can I stick with the 180 gearbox with the Quaife?

Or

Just go with the b18b sleeved to 84mm.

What will do a better 1/4 mile time, B17 or B18 to 20?

Help me decide here.......

Hidenplanvew

A b16 will rape a b18 once the turbo spools... A b18 at 500 vs a b16 at 500.. the b16 will win and not brake stuff like the b18

ACKPerformance

Agreed I'm a B16 kinda guy. I think you'll be better off with a b16. You can get them to rev higher easier than you could a b18.

The sweed

The replacement for displacement is tecnologi..

Tourqe can be lowered with a boost controler..

If I had the money I would go as big on the motor I could and get some 949 racing 10" wide wheels and some hosiers 275/35-15. A 3pc front end over that and a traction bar and LSD and I bet i can hold alot more than 400hp. Especialy if you control boost/tourqe basedon speed.

Junaid K

Okay, so its 2 to 1 for the b16 to b17 currently.
Factoring gearbox, turbo and cams into the equation are there any other opinions?
I was advised to stick with the b16 tec box for the b16 to b17 turbo or b18 box for the b18 to b20 setup. I sold my tec box and have the 180, so how about a 180 box with b16 tec first and second if I went b16 to b17? I'm sure I should stick with the 180 box for the b18 to b20 right?

Hidenplanvew

I personally love the b18c1, but when it comes to big power in our light cars less tq is your friend specially on the street. My h22 cooks tires quick and isnt usefull on the street without some kind of slicks. Even with street tires, the prelude cant keep any usefull power and just spins even with boost by gear ya I can take off in first but still by 3rd it just cuts loose and wants to talk all over the road. Any b16 on boost with take my h22 in about any gear.

SLIM NOTHING

you have to rev the **** out of that b16

b20 block are junk they crack way to easy. buy a ls block and be done with it. you got your 89mm stroke from the ls crank..

Junaid K

So 3 to 2 for the b16.

Just to clarify, when I refer to the b20, I am referring to th ls 180i non-vtec block, MID sleeved & bored to 84mm to create a displacement of 1975cc roughly. I will NEVER but a b20 crv block.

I am looking to use this car for street, but the make or break will come down to what times I post on the strip. So the gearing, cams & turbo spec are going to be critical.

How about if I went b18/20 & used an electronic boost controller to limit boost in the lower gears, thereby helping traction? With this I could use my GSR cams & stick to the 180 box.

Or, if I went b16/17 will I need to change cams & modify my box apart from a bigger turbo?