<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Apocolipse269 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so you my friend...are WRONG</TD></TR></TABLE>

OWNED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tgreaves &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Why is that.. With full throttle shifting you dont loose boost in between shifts..</TD></TR></TABLE>

the fluidity of shifting, = less of that stall when shifting (you know, like when you shift, but the car next to you doesnt shift yet, and keeps accelerating).. and how many people dont let off the throttle at least some when shifting manual?

that dude that you say Owned, the other guy, doesnt seem to grasp the huge holes and wrongful statements he made himself.... A bad auto, or an auto not made for the Tq, will break, and will be slower... but an auto adjusted and made to handle it, WILL definitly be VERY formitable in a drag setting... if you say it isnt worth it to upgrade the auto... well then, I guess it isnt worth it to upgrade to a racing clutch, harder gears, axels, etc....

The point is, for drag... auto has distinct advantages as well as disadvantages in some cases....... and the disadvantages of it breaking because of too much power.. are the same with ANY stock transmition.. eventually, it all has to be upgraded to match.

 

We all can go back and forth about this all day long, and can all each other wrong also..

My personal experances is that same powered cars, one with auto, one with manual.. The manual will be a faster, longer lasting car..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tgreaves &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">We all can go back and forth about this all day long, and can all each other wrong also..

My personal experances is that same powered cars, one with auto, one with manual.. The manual will be a faster, longer lasting car..</TD></TR></TABLE>

We don't have to go back and forth... All you need one one person who has a turbocharged automatic import (built and matched for the motor), and also has a turbocharged Honda that's a manual. Wait, that's me

For pure drag racing, the downfall to automatic is that fact that they always put less power to the wheels. If both engine produces the same power, one manual and one automatic, the manual will always put more power down to the wheels.

If both automatic and manual puts down nearly the SAME power at the WHEELS, the automatic will be faster no questions asked. Especially at higher power levels, an automatic transmission gives a "dampening effect" during launch or power spikes, similar to a constant clutch-slip technique but better, and this aids traction like no other. It also saves rubber, saves the driveline, and of course, we cannot forget that you can preload the engine to develop boost and slingshot yourself off the line

A properly built automatic transmission also tailors for big turbo big horsepower and narrow powerbands... With the ability to tune the stall speed, you can have the engine revving at that exact portion of the powerband at every gear starting right from launch. So if you want your car to rev at 7000RPM all day long, then change the stall to whatever you want to obtain that. Which is to why you are seeing many Supra owners wanting automatic transmissions because making power at the engine is not the challenge, but putting the power down to ground is the real problem.

Going automatic on a Honda that is meant for the street is not budget-wise... But if you are passionate about good traction on the street and hate shifting to get a good 1/4mile time, or perhaps to be different, you can always get the transmission built. The shop that built my Camry's auto transmission (see my sig) also does Honda, and I believe there is an 11 sec Honda that's they've built with his automatic tranny.

Automatic for imports always faces the same problem -- money. Unlike domestics, we don't have transmissions that we could just bolt up from B&M or whatnot. We have to get it built and it's mad cash and labour intensive.

What I guarantee is that if you had a 500WHP Honda that's manual, and a 500WHP built automatic Honda with the correct stall converter, the auto will completely rape the manual.

 

you guys simply CANNOT compare hondas auto tranny in this situation in comparing manual to auto


automatic = FASTER


all the top dragers = AUTOMATIC


you cannot shift faster than an automatic period.


hondas have some of the shittiest auto trannys on the market when it comes to performance.


every drive a vette with an auto tranny ? that **** shifts FAST and SMOOTH.

hence all teh supra guys are gettin turbo400 chevy tranny's and implemnting them in their setups cuz they take a beating and keep on tickin.

pure example. stock for stock..

supra TT auto OWNS 6 speed twin turbo supra.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by project dc2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> all the top dragers = AUTOMATIC</TD></TR></TABLE>

I dont see Stephan Papadakas with an auto.. And I would say hes pretty up there..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Apocolipse269 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">um...are you a moron?
3. WTF ARE YOU SMOKING!!! AUTO GOOD FOR DRAG!!! ARE YOU ON CRACK!!!
as stated in #1, manual has better controll over acceleration and better acceleration, so you my friend...are WRONG</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah man, Powerglides suck. Retard.

 

believe it or not. auto trannies are good for drag. he's right, read up on some older drag mags.

i wouldn't advise it on a honda though

 

I can completely agree with Tony the Tiger... he said exactly what I was thinking, but couldnt come up with the words... (im not so good at putting things simply sometimes.)

 

sell the car if u arent looking for lots of work

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Apocolipse269 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
3. WTF ARE YOU SMOKING!!! AUTO GOOD FOR DRAG!!! ARE YOU ON CRACK!!!
as stated in #1, manual has better controll over acceleration and better acceleration, so you my friend...are WRONG</TD></TR></TABLE>



BUHAHAHAHAAHA!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tgreaves &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I dont see Stephan Papadakas with an auto.. And I would say hes pretty up there..</TD></TR></TABLE>



That ain't no stock Honda auto tranny, that's for sure!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by [b]Apocolipse269 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
um...are you a moron?

2. the engine in an auto will blow after a while

3. WTF ARE YOU SMOKING!!!

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ummm...need I say more?! Where did you come up with that conclusion!?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Apocolipse269 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


um...are you a moron?
1. NO THE AUTO WONT WIN IN A RACE!!!, shorter gears...and more of them in a manual allow for faster acceleration and especially with a turbo more control over acceleration

2. the engine in an auto will blow after a while

3. WTF ARE YOU SMOKING!!! AUTO GOOD FOR DRAG!!! ARE YOU ON CRACK!!!
as stated in #1, manual has better controll over acceleration and better acceleration, so you my friend...are WRONG</TD></TR></TABLE>

You my friend are the ******* crack head retard. I think you need to get your head out of your ***. If you don't know the answer then don't try to chime in and make yourself look dumber then you avatar or you delslow. A boosted auto is faster then a boosted manual. End of story polesmokeing dumbass. It makes me laugh when people have no ******* clue about **** and talk like they are gods gift to the world.

OWNED POSER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

a good secret for the auto dragger's...unlock the tranny...meaning, let the torque converter spin freely, it allows for high stall speeds to launch at like 5500-8000rpms. this added with the dampening effect will run quite well. just ask the supra guys they do it all the time.

 

Without beefing up the auto, it will be slower if all things were equall, due to the fact that the auto will have about a 25% loss compared to the manuals 10% driveline loss. Beefing it up and using a higher stall torque converter will bring the auto down to about a 12% loss, and closer to the power output of a manual. TCI auto makes a good replacement torque converter which is brand new, and only about $750, JMO wants $900 to rebuild your stock converter. Also TCI has a rebuild kit with new clutches and kolene treated steels for about $250. http://www.tciauto.com/sport_compact.htm

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by p0gi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Beefing it up and using a higher stall torque converter will bring the auto down to about a 12% loss, and closer to the power output of a manual. TCI auto makes a good replacement torque converter which is brand new, and only about $750, JMO wants $900 to rebuild your stock converter. Also TCI has a rebuild kit with new clutches and kolene treated steels for about $250. http://www.tciauto.com/sport_compact.htm

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Changing the converter will not bring the driveline loss down to 12%...
Especially with a stock rebuilt unit, it won't happen. High stall units in particular sometimes may not be calibrated correctly and may end up being "loose". That in reality, would increase the driveline loss %.

The only way for an auto to get down to that % is to lock up the converter itself... but trust me, you don't want to do that too often.

The parts you've listed is only half the parts required. Perhaps good for about 200WHP of power handling. There are no valvebody modifications, and only surface deep upgrades...
The best I've seen in this whole auto transmission market is http://www.importperformancetr...shtml -- read the list of work they do.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Syner-G-Racing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">a good secret for the auto dragger's...unlock the tranny...meaning, let the torque converter spin freely, it allows for high stall speeds to launch at like 5500-8000rpms. this added with the dampening effect will run quite well. just ask the supra guys they do it all the time. </TD></TR></TABLE>

You cannot just "unlock" the converter unfortunately... You have to get a high stall unit and a lock up control unit To get this perfect stall, it requires great experience from the person who upgraded the converter. Some shops just can't get it right and the stall it either too low, too high, or too loose (converter never grabs and engages fully).

To run a high stall converter, you would also want to have a reccalibrated valvebody to send more line pressure across the entire transmission so it doesn't cook itself (high power apps). That would also include a huge transmission cooler (s) as well.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tony the Tiger &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Changing the converter will not bring the driveline loss down to 12%...
Especially with a stock rebuilt unit, it won't happen. High stall units in particular sometimes may not be calibrated correctly and may end up being "loose". That in reality, would increase the driveline loss %.

The only way for an auto to get down to that % is to lock up the converter itself... but trust me, you don't want to do that too often.

The parts you've listed is only half the parts required. Perhaps good for about 200WHP of power handling. There are no valvebody modifications, and only surface deep upgrades...
The best I've seen in this whole auto transmission market is http://www.importperformancetr...shtml -- read the list of work they do. </TD></TR></TABLE>


There is no valve body on a honda tranny. Its electronically controlled and you will have to get a shifttronic unit from level ten to increase line pressures and change the firmness of the shifting .

The torque converters on hondas are lock-up style converters and lock themselves. The tci unit is a brand new unit built by a reputable company. As far as rebuilt units go, protorque does an excellent job from what ive seen (it was on an domestic though). When a unit is rebuilt they cut it open and change the angle of the fins and replace the internal clutchs with better ones (carbon or kevlar). They also test it when theyre done.
Replacing the torque converter with a higher stall unit will alone drop 1/4mile times by 1/2 to 1 full second.... more drive line losses...you tell me! Less hp to the ground and a faster 1/4 time..hmmmm...........that makes alot of sense.


Ok and lastly... you have to upgrade the internal clutches and steels to be able to put that power to the ground. You should be able to throw about 400 tq at a good rebuilt tranny. These upgrades will lower driveline loss to about 12%!!!!!!

 

one thing that a lot of people are forgettng is that automatics can build boost "on the line" so to speak. where as in nuetral in a honda you cant without some sort of staging brake, or the old e-brake deal.

if properly set up with the right internal, torqur converter, properly adjusted valve-body and TURBO, the automatic will rule over the manual.

YES you do lose power thru an auto tranny but you can counter some of this by gear ratio and final drive and wheel size. this has been done for years.

ever wonder why those 7 and 6 second turbo mustangs sound like the turbo never some out of spool for the whole pass down the track, its the AUTO tranny that in them,

this is also why alot of supras run the art-carr turbo 400 tranny from chevrolet, because it will hold over 1000hp and gives the reliabilty that DRAG racers...........9not street warriors like myself) need.

i know honda has some type of aftermarket tarnny compnenets but not sure of the power levels they can hold.

NHRA had to come out with new rules and change a couple of thier fastest classes BACK to MANUAL trannies so that the competition was tougher because evryone was running an auto and getting sooooo good with them that it wasnt challenging anymore, they needed inconsistency and mis-shifts to make itmore enjoyable

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dadeboy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

You my friend are the ******* crack head retard. I think you need to get your head out of your ***. If you don't know the answer then don't try to chime in and make yourself look dumber then you avatar or you delslow. A boosted auto is faster then a boosted manual. End of story polesmokeing dumbass. It makes me laugh when people have no ******* clue about **** and talk like they are gods gift to the world.

OWNED POSER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
</TD></TR></TABLE>


thats what i was gunna say..

for anyone trying to build thier car on any sort budget.. a reliable auto is out of the question.. on a honda anywaz..

i have personally owned both auto and manual Mustangs.. the manual was a stock 85 with 3.73's .. and the auto was a 79 with a built 351w.. had a C4 w/basic shiftkit... the manual of course was more fun to drive because i can dump it.. Mustang manual tranny's are fragile.. thats why i went auto with the high HP setup..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by p0gi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


There is no valve body on a honda tranny. Its electronically controlled and you will have to get a shifttronic unit from level ten to increase line pressures and change the firmness of the shifting .

The torque converters on hondas are lock-up style converters and lock themselves. The tci unit is a brand new unit built by a reputable company. As far as rebuilt units go, protorque does an excellent job from what ive seen (it was on an domestic though). When a unit is rebuilt they cut it open and change the angle of the fins and replace the internal clutchs with better ones (carbon or kevlar). They also test it when theyre done.
Replacing the torque converter with a higher stall unit will alone drop 1/4mile times by 1/2 to 1 full second.... more drive line losses...you tell me! Less hp to the ground and a faster 1/4 time..hmmmm...........that makes alot of sense.


Ok and lastly... you have to upgrade the internal clutches and steels to be able to put that power to the ground. You should be able to throw about 400 tq at a good rebuilt tranny. These upgrades will lower driveline loss to about 12%!!!!!!</TD></TR></TABLE>

Tell me about it guy... Look at my sig... You know, the T66 Camry with an automatic.

Valvebody....control valves... same functional parts with different names. Honda have control valves. You still need to recalibrate them and upgrade them. An electronic controller can only increase line pressure to a certain extent that the stock components maxes out.

You are only getting skin deep in converter tech... It takes a lot of skill to make a good converter... I had one unit made by levelten rated at 3000 stall and it lost power at the wheels.. The angle of the fins and their clearances wasn't done properly and I ended up with what people call a "loose" converter. I had a flash stall of 3000, but as I did a full brake stall, the RPM's just keep climbing. As you put more power to the converter, the converter itself doesn't grab and engage fully and constantly "slips". It slips all the way to redline and never fully catches. That's what makes the car lose power at the wheels.

So like what a said, a badly done converter, and sometimes a mismatched stall speed will lower overall power at the wheels. A good converter will put effectively use the engine's powerband better by letting the RPM's climb sooner. Show me one example of what you refer to "lesser drivetrain loss" after their converter upgrade (that means peak power increase). Dyno of before and after converter upgrade would be good.

From my own personal experiences and based on what I know about the converter itself, a high stall converter WILL NOT put more power at the wheels. A high stall converter will effectively accelerate the car at a better portion of the powerband. That is why the car runs a faster ET, and not because it puts more power down @ the wheels. I bet it makes a whole lot of sense now

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by entr0py &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Yeah man, Powerglides suck. Retard.</TD></TR></TABLE>

um it only takes 15 h.p. to turn a powerglide. why was it the trans of choice in top fuel for so long? put next to a th400 a powerglide will out perform it. if the engine has enoutg torque to carry 2nd gear.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boostedcivicsir &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

um it only takes 15 h.p. to turn a powerglide. why was it the trans of choice in top fuel for so long? put next to a th400 a powerglide will out perform it. if the engine has enoutg torque to carry 2nd gear.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Exactly, I had one in my 64 impala at first when I bought it but for daily driving 2 speeds are not very good on the engine and gas. But the tranny will get up and go, I would never use one on a domestic again unless it strictly drag car.

 

the simple answer to this post is if you are just looking to be a bit faster then you can boost your auto tranny assuming thats what you have. it wont last as long as normal but it will be quicker...stock for stock honda auto trannies will be slower in a drag race because of the taller gears = slower acceleration and plus they are going to slip more while shifting when you add the extra power yes they can build boost off the line and hold boost in shifts but you can hold boost in shifts with full throttle shifts on a manual and if you want you can build boost while holding the brake if you are good enough i guess..but using an auto tranny on a higher hp honda isnt very practical especially on a budget... the cost to upgrade the tranny is super high. in my opinion if you got an auto boost it up...just not too much