Blown90hatcH

UPDATES ON PAGE 2!!

Setup:

D16Y8, SC50 turbo, LoveFab manifold, ZEX cam, AEM cam gear, 10:1 compression, etc.

I was tuning this car today and it kinda has me scratching my brain for thoughts. Basically what happens is the car revs to around 6400, rpm remains there for a second or two, then revs like a champ to 7500. I have changed plugs, confirmed the clutch is not slipping, no boost fluctuations.

Also the timing on this car is interesting. It made the most power/trq at some odd timing settings. I confirmed the timing with the Hondata and a timing light. The cam gear is at -3 degrees with the ZEX cam in the Y8 motor. I tried various settings and this yielded the most power/trq. The car made huge gains through the midrange with super low ignition timing, but after 6500, if you removed it or added it, it lost power.

Any input would be nice.

Here is the dyno and high speed cam timing maps for 10psi boost run.



Here is the overlay of the runs with the timing super low as well as the high speed timing map for the low timing run. In this pic, the Blue/Red lines are the timing maps that are low through the mid range.



I tried various timing settings all the way down to the low timing above. Plugs were constantly pulled and read. The car made more and more power with retarded timing. Car made some good power for 10psi though, but is very wierd how it revs, holds rpms and shoots up.

Thanks for shopping.


Modified by Blown90hatcH at 9:03 PM 4/20/2005

Sohc Driver

Congrats on the tuning!!!

mrbsponge

Jason, could it be the compression of the motor?

has he had the head milled at all????? i had the worst problem with timing on my sohc back in the day after the head was milled.

the timing ligh and marks were perfect but it just ran like crap, i think i ended up having to run it retarded as well.

boosted hybrid

After seeing the torque plot, the VE of the engine is increasing with rpm. This is only possible with boost pressure increasing, i.e boost creep. Did you get a chance to look at the graphing datalogs in hondalogger?

alpha

I talked to Jason this afternoon. After looking at the sheets it does look like boost creep but his datalogs don't show boost creep. I thought the hesitation might have been partially the ignitor chip but that seems not to be the case either.

Hmmm ... ... ...

Blown90hatcH

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boosted hybrid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">After seeing the torque plot, the VE of the engine is increasing with rpm. This is only possible with boost pressure increasing, i.e boost creep. Did you get a chance to look at the graphing datalogs in hondalogger?</TD></TR></TABLE>I did not get a change to Hondalog it for boost creep which sucks, but I did monitor the profec and the romeditor. Kind of a crappy way to see, but the increases were minimal and full boost was around 4600 rpm.

What has me stumped is that the car fly's up to 6500 rpm and sits there for atleast 1-3 seconds, then flys up to 7500 rpm.

RyanEJ8

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mrbsponge &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Jason, could it be the compression of the motor?

has he had the head milled at all????? i had the worst problem with timing on my sohc back in the day after the head was milled.

the timing ligh and marks were perfect but it just ran like crap, i think i ended up having to run it retarded as well.</TD></TR></TABLE>

The head has not been milled at all. This one really has me stumped. I would also like to note that the hg may have blown again on the way home from this tuning session. I pushed coolant out the overflow again. I also noticed that I did experience some boost creep when I was driving it on the streets after the dyno.

When I pull the head again I'm going to send it to a machine shop and have it checked for straightness. I think I'll also have some portwork done.

mrbsponge

damnit man, get a B series!!!!!

i feel for ya bro, did this for a couple years on my 96 sohc, and finally gave up, i sold the car with 14,000 miles and had gone thru 6 motors!

alpha

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RyanCivic2000 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">When I pull the head again I'm going to send it to a machine shop and have it checked for straightness. I think I'll also have some portwork done.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Very good idea

gitwidit

I agree, torque curve/peak torque looks odd. How did you guys figure out the clutch wasn't slipping? Did you ever try tuning again past 10psi? Weird that you raised the boost and power dropped.....

Suprdave

It has to be creeping at higher rpm...no doubt. Look at that plot...

done

looks like is it creeping boost right at the end..

Benjithx

ShitDamn!

60 post per day

dude, go outside...omg

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

lol. he's glued to his chair..

i thought i was bad.

he must be the whitest person on this board....

alpha

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Benjithx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ShitDamn!

60 post per day

dude, go outside...omg </TD></TR></TABLE>

That's what happens when you only get a couple hours of sleep a day Blown90Hatch is one of the busiest people I know.

Blown90hatcH

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Suprdave &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It has to be creeping at higher rpm...no doubt. Look at that plot...</TD></TR></TABLE>I agree dave, but what is wierd is that the car sits at 6500 for a few seconds and then jumps up to 7500. Also the wierd timing tables. I will get the newest hondalogger installed and hopefully get some time to log everything and video the car as well to show what the tach does.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Benjithx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ShitDamn!

60 post per day

dude, go outside...omg </TD></TR></TABLE>It's a joke genius.

boosted hybrid

Plot speed vs. rpm graphically.

Suprdave

Is it really sitting at 6500? Or is the tach signal faling off, then picking back up at 7500? I've never heard of an engine 'pausing'.

RyanEJ8

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Suprdave &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Is it really sitting at 6500? Or is the tach signal faling off, then picking back up at 7500? I've never heard of an engine 'pausing'.</TD></TR></TABLE>

It is actually "pausing".

Blown90hatcH

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Suprdave &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Is it really sitting at 6500? Or is the tach signal faling off, then picking back up at 7500? I've never heard of an engine 'pausing'.</TD></TR></TABLE>Seriously, it sits there for a few seconds, then flies up to 7500. I have never seen this before either. I also checked to make sure my foot had not been told by my brain to left off for a few seconds either and it stayed floored.

racinskittle

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RyanCivic2000 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It is actually "pausing".</TD></TR></TABLE>

It hesitates and kinda feels boggy correct? Then it kicks in?

Have u run the car up there w/ partial throttle at all? If so, did the problem go away or wasn't as bad? Curious. Pressure probably wont be the same though

Blown90hatcH

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by racinskittle &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

It hesitates and kinda feels boggy correct? Then it kicks in?

Have u run the car up there w/ partial throttle at all? If so, did the problem go away or wasn't as bad? Curious. </TD></TR></TABLE>No, it does not hesitate or bog. It flies up to 6500ish like normal, literally sounds like I am easing off the gas for a few seconds and continues on. The car was street tuned part throttle/full throttle before it saw the dyno.

racinskittle

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Blown90hatcH &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">No, it does not hesitate or bog. It flies up to 6500ish like normal, literally sounds like I am easing off the gas for a few seconds and continues on. The car was street tuned part throttle/full throttle before it saw the dyno. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Oh, nvm then. This problem's different.

GL with it bud! You're a smart guy, you'll get it.

SOHC_MShue

more crazy y8 tming problems it sounds like...i'm gonna get a z6

racinskittle

Did you add or take away fuel from the street tune?