My friend has a temporary fuel setup before we get turbo edit working with it. It consists of a check valve, rc 440's, walbro 255 fuel pump, an fmu, and an afc. For some reason I have problems getting it to lean out enough in certain areas. Basically right now i have as much fuel subtracted across the board as the afc will let me. Its set at -50% straight across(is there anyway to subtract more). It runs perfect from 5000-7000 , but anything under that at full throttle and it is in the high 9's to high 10's. Also at part throttle boost it stumbles bad from running so rich.

As far as cruising and part throttle out of boost goes it runs pretty well...closed loop keeps it around 14.7:1. For some reason at idle though it wants to run around 11.5:1 even with the afc at -50%. Any idea on how i can fix the idle and subtract more fuel in boost? Forgive me for being an afc noob...i'm used to tuning with uberdata.

 

check this site out: http://www.geocities.com/therm....html

specifically page 4 talks about running rich on the low end and how to adjust for it..

hope this helps..

 

Well it just sais to lean it out more, but the problem is that i can't because enrichment is already set to -50% and it won't let me go any lower. These are only 440cc injectors so whats the deal?

 

might wanna try to switch back to the stock pump to drop fuel pressure or adjust fuel pressure if you can.

 

Um, did you ever think that the FMU is actually over flowing the injectors, giving you basically no control over them down there.

Possible answer. Unless I overlooked something.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Laserjock &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">might wanna try to switch back to the stock pump to drop fuel pressure or adjust fuel pressure if you can.</TD></TR></TABLE>
hmm good idea. Also i'm not sure if his fuel pump is the low or high pressure one. I'll have to ask him.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 93turbo16 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Um, did you ever think that the FMU is actually over flowing the injectors, giving you basically no control over them down there.

Possible answer. Unless I overlooked something.</TD></TR></TABLE>
that doesn't explain why i can't get it to idle right down low because the fmu isn't even taking effect there. Also this setup worked fine on the guy's car he bought it all from. The guy who had it before got it tuned at inline pro and it made 307whp @7psi on a b18c1. So I know this setup should work. I'm not sure if the other guy had an adjustable fpr or not though. I'll have to ask him about that.

 

Did you ever try adjusting the idle screw at all? Or possibly getting rid of the FMU all together?

 

Just curious how much boost he is trying to run? Cause why are you also running check valves... and were did you put them inline for reference?

I would ditch the fmu all together for sure (sell it quick before it finds a home on your shelf forever), and I also would think about replacing the oe fuel pressure regulator with a decent 1:1 unit that can handle that high output pump.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 93turbo16 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Did you ever try adjusting the idle screw at all? Or possibly getting rid of the FMU all together?</TD></TR></TABLE>
the idle rpm is perfect, but it reads very rich on the wideband. I thought that closed loop would take care of that, but for some reason it doesn't. It does however work wonders on his cruising afr. So basically the only areas i was having problems were at idle, lower rpm boosting when it isn't fully spooled, and part throttle boost. I think you are right about the fuel pressure though. Another thing that is weird is that his pressure readings on the afc don't work. It monitors rpms, correction, tps, etc. fine, but the pressure signal reads the same all the time.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by twkdCD595 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Just curious how much boost he is trying to run? Cause why are you also running check valves... and were did you put them inline for reference?

I would ditch the fmu all together for sure (sell it quick before it finds a home on your shelf forever), and I also would think about replacing the oe fuel pressure regulator with a decent 1:1 unit that can handle that high output pump.</TD></TR></TABLE>
He is running 7-8psi for now. I am running check valves because this is not the hack. We are using an fmu + afc + large injectors rather than just large injectors and an afc. The only problem is that I have no experience with this kind of setup. I believe inlinepro put together this setup and used to use it themselves before hondata and all that stuff came out so hopefully he can get some info from them if he calls up there.

 

bump

I can understand why the fuel pressure may be too high in boost with the fmu, but why can I not get it to lean out at idle?

 

I think someone did something like that but I was under the impression they did it so they could run an excessive amount of boost (10+ psi and still the stock map sensor) on the piggyback fuel management (afc).

None the less... as I said before some of the overall rich problem could definately be from the fuel pressure regulator being overwhelm'd by that pump and the fmu is just not needed imo.

 

i remember when we tried to put in 550's with the afc, had to use stock injectors to make it over to the dyno b/c the car would barely start from running so rich. 440's are going to be borderline for tuning with a afc. tell your friend to get a hondata and his car will run 10 times better with a good tune.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by twkdCD595 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think someone did something like that but I was under the impression they did it so they could run an excessive amount of boost (10+ psi and still the stock map sensor) on the piggyback fuel management (afc).

None the less... as I said before some of the overall rich problem could definately be from the fuel pressure regulator being overwhelm'd by that pump and the fmu is just not needed imo.</TD></TR></TABLE>
well he originally got the fmu with the setup so he could run more than 300whp which is close to the max of those 440cc injectors. I know for a fact that many high horsepower setups have used a combo like this before. I just don't really know much about how the setup works.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Boostedcivicsi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i remember when we tried to put in 550's with the afc, had to use stock injectors to make it over to the dyno b/c the car would barely start from running so rich. 440's are going to be borderline for tuning with a afc. tell your friend to get a hondata and his car will run 10 times better with a good tune.</TD></TR></TABLE>
trust me we are ditching this setup soon. We aren't running hondata though(its worthless now imo now that there are so many free alternatives). We will be tuning with turbo edit. I'm not even sure if you can use hondata on an obd0 car without converting to obd1.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SOHC_MShue &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
trust me we are ditching this setup soon. We aren't running hondata though(its worthless now imo now that there are so many free alternatives). We will be tuning with turbo edit. I'm not even sure if you can use hondata on an obd0 car without converting to obd1. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Nope would have to convert to OBD1. But turboedit has come a long way. Use it, it is a great tool.

 

 

Agian I am not saying the combination will not work but rather as you said yourself, they used it in a higher hp setup needing lots of fuel... lots more than per say a simple setup like your friends running 7-8 psi of boost (which means you would be running pretty damn rich and probably could not get it to lean out enough).

Also did you catch what I have said twice about the fuel pressure regulator... that was my problem for a while and others have had it happen as well.

Trying to help out but... whats that saying, you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make him drink.

Your friend probably should just go ahead and buy turboedit, hondata, or an ems if they have the money. Then take it to someone to tune, because it sounds as if they do not want to take the time to work with and understand their current setup.


Modified by twkdCD595 at 10:05 AM 4/21/2005

 

[QUOTE=twkdCD595]Agian I am not saying the combination will not work but rather as you said yourself, they used it in a higher hp setup needing lots of fuel... lots more than per say a simple setup like your friends running 7-8 psi of boost (which means you would be running pretty damn rich and probably could not get it to lean out enough).

Also did you catch what I have said twice about the fuel pressure regulator... that was my problem for a while and others have had it happen as well.

Trying to help out but... whats that saying, you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make him drink.

Your friend probably should just go ahead and buy turboedit, hondata, or an ems if they have the money. Then take it to someone to tune, because it sounds as if they do not want to take the time to work with and understand their current setup.


Modified by twkdCD595 at 10:05 AM 4/21/2005[/QUOTE
well i know the setup was used on a higher hp car, which yesterday i found out also wasn't using an adjustable fpr, but the thing is that under low boost that other car wasn't needing all that fuel either so i am wondering how they were able to get it to lean out enough. Or even at part throttle boosting. Another thing thats weird is that the other guy's settings weren't even near as close to being leaned out all the way as the settings on this car are. I'm pretty sure that this car is making around 250-260whp as it stands though. It pulls just as hard as my friend's hatch that put down 242whp and is now running an even better setup that feels like its putting down more power than before...and this ls motor is in an integra and not a hatch .

I will be tuning his turboedit whenever he gets it. Honestly if he orders the parts now we could have it running on turboedit by next week, but for the time being it would be nice for him to be able to drive the car with what he has. Well he can drive it, but it bucks terrible at anything between a 1/3 throttle and full throttle. So he can basically only cruise around or give it wot

 

Ok so maybe the old owner of the setup did have an adjustable fpr. My friend told him about it today and the guy was like "oh **** i forgot to give that to you with the setup".

 

Alright...my friend kept telling me the wrong thing. The final verdict is that the old owner did not have an adjustable fpr on his car. Also when he had the afc tuned the settings were like all the way up in -37 in higher rpms...it would have needed more fuel though considering it was a gsr motor and not a ls.

I checked my buddy's fp at idle and its 45psi. We even tried taking out the fmu and check valve and running the afc hack. It ran slightly leaner at idle...around 12:1 rather than 10:1 and slightly leaner at full throttle, but at half throttle it was still insanely rich even with the values at -50.

 

now that I am no longer a noob I understand things a lot better. I thought I was the **** running a VAFC back in the day when I had my first pieced together kit, and after running uberdata on my 350whp ls motor and going back to the VAFC II I ******* hate the hack . . . . it blows ***** and u can't really tune it for ****. It is way better then a FMU, but u get really poor gas mileage with the hack and what not because u are tuning RPM wise, you can't tune the afc for load specific settings like u can with Uberdata.

I am having the same problem as u right now though where my car runs insainly rich with the afc hack even with the values turned way the **** down with my dsm 450's

I have no idea what to do about that at all. I guess drop the fuel pressure if u can, or run a different managment. U can try putting the stock fuel pump nack in or running a smaller walboro fuel pump.

 

Do you think his fuel pressure of 45psi sounds high? It sounds about right to me..maybe a little on the high side.

 

if you have bigger injectors and a AFC why do you need a FMU?

 

You may have to run the "old one" trick, where you drill a small orifice in the regulator so it bypasses a bit more fuel. 440s will never let the car idle correctly using the AFC/VAFC, it's just too big of an injector for that setup, I was able to get it to run just fine in the middle of winter, but as soon as the weather broke the car ran like **** and ended up fouling my O2 sensor...it's a lost cause. And get rid of the check valve and FMU and run the hack if you are going this route.

here's a link to that article..
http://theoldone.com/articles/regulator/


Modified by Boondock Saint at 7:57 AM 4/27/2005

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by N20civicB18 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if you have bigger injectors and a AFC why do you need a FMU?</TD></TR></TABLE>
to make more power than a normal afc and 440's can handle.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Boondock Saint &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You may have to run the "old one" trick, where you drill a small orifice in the regulator so it bypasses a bit more fuel. 440s will never let the car idle correctly using the AFC/VAFC, it's just too big of an injector for that setup, I was able to get it to run just fine in the middle of winter, but as soon as the weather broke the car ran like **** and ended up fouling my O2 sensor...it's a lost cause. And get rid of the check valve and FMU and run the hack if you are going this route.

here's a link to that article..
http://theoldone.com/articles/regulator/


Modified by Boondock Saint at 7:57 AM 4/27/2005</TD></TR></TABLE>
yea i guess the afc just sucks. Hopefully his car will be running on turbo edit soon.