MalcolmV8

Hey guys,

I'm curious about trying E85 in the Honda. My thought was to get a 5 gallon gas can and go fill it then drive home and run the tank out or darn near close to it.
Put the E85 in and add approx 40% to my fuel maps as a starting point and go from there. Is it really that simple or am I missing something? I just need to get my A/F back in check on E85 and go right? Once that's running smooth I was going to attempt to add a couple more lbs of boost More just wanting to test E85 than anything. Anyone who's done this got some tips?

Thanks
Malcolm

rich7777

Will you actually benefit off using it though ? I can't see any benefits myself unless the engine more or less needs it. Its energy content is actually lower than petrol/gas (30% less).

MalcolmV8

Well right now at 14 lbs of boost I'm at the edge of 91 octane gas. I had to pull a lot of timing so it doesn't detonate. With E85 I could probably put that timing back and even add more boost. Like I said I just want to play more than anything. Maybe run a tank or two and see the gas mileage etc. and then switch back to 91.

Turbo-LS

iTrader: (4)

91 octane is good for 400hp if your there then your close im pretty sure people have pushed it past 400 though. Ethanol is great car runs much cooler, no detonation im running 600 with thenol stock sleeves

rich7777

Ok, I see you're point. Wait and see what the others have to say then as I've never come across the stuff personally. I'm sure they'll be able to help

MalcolmV8

There's no way I have 400 but then I only have a D motor. What I do know is much past 12 lbs of boost I had to pull a lot of timing. I'm sure I could keep pushing the boost beyond the 14 ~ 15 I'm running but when pulling so much timing it becomes counter productive.

Like I said just playing around here. I've never messed with E85 and just want to get my feet wet. So after I dump it in the tank it's just adjusting fuel maps right? I'd like to get a 5 gallon container and dump it in at the house in case it takes me a bit to figure it out and not leave me stranded somewhere

Turbo-LS

iTrader: (4)

you had to pull timing because detonation on the plugs or you heard detonation or breaking up ? I know D series dont like a ton of timing to begin with anyhow from my experience tuning them

MalcolmV8

I use a J&S Vampire detonation detection box. It picks up detonation before you hear it.

http://www.jandssafeguard.com/VampirePage/Vampire.html

Turbo-LS

iTrader: (4)

getting det at peak torque and then fades off or just det throughout the powerband? what are you tuning on ? Is it pistons and rod or stock engine

MalcolmV8

From about 4500 ~ 5000 RPM on up through the entire RPM range till red line I had to pull timing. I'm using Hondata S300.
It's CP 9:1 pistons with Eagle rods & head studs.

Turbo-LS

iTrader: (4)

whats your PTW ? Im assuming there are settings in the det device are you sure your getting det did you pull plugs to confirm ?

MalcolmV8

0.0035 per CP tech support. Top ring is 0.016 & 2nd ring is 0.022

Turbo-LS

iTrader: (4)

top rings a bit tight for my liking

if you havent checked plugs i would put a fresh set and add timing and make a pull, shut it right down and pull plugs look for det on the plugs and be sure your det device is reading that your experiencing det.

MalcolmV8

I haven't tried on a fresh set of plugs. I suppose my confidence in the Vampire is elevated because it's the third one I've installed and used. I have one on my 03 Cobra and on my buddies GT500 and on both vehicles the Vampire was spot on.

Here's a screen shot of the S300 on timing in vtec. Notice around 4500 rpms how sharply timing has to be pulled.

EDIT: suppose that's more like 5250 RPMS it declines sharply



So back to the E85. I can just put some in and adjust AF and go right?

Turbo-LS

iTrader: (4)

That looks more like faulty reading from the pistons slap BUT I cant speculate that without a plug reading on fresh plugs with timing back in it.

MalcolmV8

It does catch piston slap noise at low load and RPM. Even on the stock pistons it did. It has a boost/vacuum port that you can hook up to the Vampire and it'll disable it self until 5 Hg or less is reached. That way it only activates as you get close to boost and in boost and it eliminated false readings at low load/rpm. Now if it's picking up on piston slap in boost that would be a whole different issue.

I can definitely try a fresh plug in one of the cylinders and make a pull like that and shutdown. My hesitation is if it's really detonating I don't want to hurt the motor.

MalcolmV8

I suppose if I run E85 and can put timing back in without the Vampire triggering then it's not piston slap. That'd be interesting to see.

Turbo-LS

iTrader: (4)

it will want more timing with ethanol for sure

Boyle.R

Sorry to thread jack, I'm also thinking of switching to E85. I have a Innovate wideband which displays AFR. Can I still tune off AFR or is this going to be a incorrect reading with the E85? i.e Can I tune for 14.7 afr at idle and part throttle using E85?

cruizinmax

iTrader: (2)

It really is just as easy as you say. Run it out of gas or close to it and you will want to fill up as much as you can with e85. In my experience you will only want to start by adding 30% more fuel. 40% is too much. You will also still have to do a lot of tuning to get the fuel right but 30% is in the ballpark. Also the first couple times you fill up you will still be flushing some of the pump gas out so keep that in mind when tuning your fuel.

cruizinmax

iTrader: (2)

This is correct, you will still shoot for 14.7 (displayed) during cruise and part throttle. I like to shoot for 11.5-11.8 under load.

Boyle.R

Thanks man, good to know I don't have to mess around with my wideband changing settings

MalcolmV8

Well I did it. I filled up two 2 gallon cans with E85 and drove almost a 100 miles to empty the tank. Damn never realized it ran that much when the needle is on the red line at E lol or I would have just drained the tank.
So anyhow I drove it till it was spluttering on the side of the road and barely running. That's pretty much gone. Put in my two cans.

I started off making a copy of my tune and bumped fuel by 40% across everywhere. I was amazed it was that easy and off I went trying it out. I quickly found in normal driving only 30% was needed as stated above so I adjusted that. I left in boost at 40% over my 91 pump gas and it seemed spot on.

Maybe it's just in my head from reading to much up on E85 but the car definitely felt quicker. 2nd gear normally has zero tire spin (boost by gear and rpm) and now it was ripping the tires at the top of second before hitting third. But who knows, weather and a million other factors can be at play too.

So now I went and added timing back in you saw pulled out in the pic up above and the Vampire never so much as batted an eye. I think that says it was for sure detonation before and not piston slap.

I then bumped it from 14 lbs to about 18 lbs and wow does the car pick up. That's just to much fun lol. I'm not sure the limits of these D motors so I put it back down to around 16 ~ 17 max in 4th and 5th. Little lower in 3rd and 2nd for traction.
Using a Precision 5431 turbo.

I can see why guys love e85 so much. I wish I had pumps closer to my house and I'd run it all the time

Turbo-LS

iTrader: (4)

is it creeping at all? under timed motor with ethanol will boost creep. log it and be sure your not getting more boost in second gear which making it faster.

MalcolmV8

I have a boost gauge on the pillar I was eye balling and didn't catch any boost creep but yeah I'll data log and see if that's what's happening.