trying to choose pistons endyn or cp pistons? turbo application.
10-02-2007, 11:39 AM
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trying to choose pistons endyn or cp pistons? turbo application.
searched already but tryin to see whats the best recommended 9.5:1 endyn roller waves or 9.0:1 cp pistons for my h22 already sleeeved with GT35R?
10-02-2007, 11:40 AM
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Re: trying to choose pistons endyn or cp pistons? turbo application. (superturboprelude)
i read this on their site is this true compared to the cp pistons and will it benifit me though
Roller-Wave....What Is It?
In the mid-to-late '70's, I found that biasing the mixture to the exhaust-side of the piston netted lower fuel consumption, as well as considerably less tendency for detonation in 2-valve NASCAR and drag race engines. Those experiments ultimately lead to swirl combustion technology that dominates 2-valve race head design today. Today's 4-valve pent-roof combustion chambers don't lend themselves to conventional swirl combustion as readily, so a rethink was required to mechanically enhance their combustion properties.
Since confining mixture and initiating the burn on the exhaust-side of the piston takes full advantage of exhaust-valve heat for mixture ionization, I utilized tighter (and larger area) quench clearance on the intake-side of the piston to force a mixture wave to flow toward the exhaust-side of the chamber as the piston approaches TDC. I've incorporated less piston dome volume on the exhaust-side with both more piston to head (quench) clearance, as well as the trough that incorporates both exhaust valve relief's. This trough lines up precisely with the down-sloping combustion chamber at TDC, reflecting and rolling the mixture that's traveling toward it from the intake-side. Confining a rolling turbulence to the exhaust-side of the piston insures that more mixture components will be lighted during ignition, and a faster, more complete combustion event will result....permitting one to use less spark advance and fuel, to achieve more power and less detonation in any application, whether normally-aspirated or forced-induction.
When one has the ability to shape the combustion event using mechanical design, it's possible to also design the tuning parameters the engine will "want", rather than living with compromised tuning and performance created by the use of more generic combustion space designs.
Roller-Wave....What Is It?
In the mid-to-late '70's, I found that biasing the mixture to the exhaust-side of the piston netted lower fuel consumption, as well as considerably less tendency for detonation in 2-valve NASCAR and drag race engines. Those experiments ultimately lead to swirl combustion technology that dominates 2-valve race head design today. Today's 4-valve pent-roof combustion chambers don't lend themselves to conventional swirl combustion as readily, so a rethink was required to mechanically enhance their combustion properties.
Since confining mixture and initiating the burn on the exhaust-side of the piston takes full advantage of exhaust-valve heat for mixture ionization, I utilized tighter (and larger area) quench clearance on the intake-side of the piston to force a mixture wave to flow toward the exhaust-side of the chamber as the piston approaches TDC. I've incorporated less piston dome volume on the exhaust-side with both more piston to head (quench) clearance, as well as the trough that incorporates both exhaust valve relief's. This trough lines up precisely with the down-sloping combustion chamber at TDC, reflecting and rolling the mixture that's traveling toward it from the intake-side. Confining a rolling turbulence to the exhaust-side of the piston insures that more mixture components will be lighted during ignition, and a faster, more complete combustion event will result....permitting one to use less spark advance and fuel, to achieve more power and less detonation in any application, whether normally-aspirated or forced-induction.
When one has the ability to shape the combustion event using mechanical design, it's possible to also design the tuning parameters the engine will "want", rather than living with compromised tuning and performance created by the use of more generic combustion space designs.
10-02-2007, 12:22 PM
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Re: trying to choose pistons endyn or cp pistons? turbo application. (superturboprelude)
when it comes to pistons it is all user preference.... all the models from wiseco,endyn(wiseco), CP, JE, Mahle,Manley and many others all come with good forged designs.
The problem however is the installation and the setup that kills so many people. Not engough ring gap too tighet clearances all in all good engine builder will use what he or she feels comfortable with.
The problem however is the installation and the setup that kills so many people. Not engough ring gap too tighet clearances all in all good engine builder will use what he or she feels comfortable with.
10-02-2007, 12:51 PM
#4
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It is not just preference. The Endyn slugs have a higher silicon content and can't withstand as much heat so they are less forgiving when your tune isn't onpoint. Higher silicon mean less thermal expansion which is why Endyn can recommend such tight piston to wall clearances.
Boosted, I recommend CP.
Boosted, I recommend CP.
10-02-2007, 04:47 PM
#5
Re: (trickeng)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by trickeng »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It is not just preference. The Endyn slugs have a higher silicon content and can't withstand as much heat so they are less forgiving when your tune isn't onpoint. Higher silicon mean less thermal expansion which is why Endyn can recommend such tight piston to wall clearances.
Boosted, I recommend CP. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I thought Endyn were just modified Wiseco pistons?
Boosted, I recommend CP. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I thought Endyn were just modified Wiseco pistons?
10-03-2007, 07:14 AM
#7
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Re: (Sprockets)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Sprockets »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I thought Endyn were just modified Wiseco pistons?</TD></TR></TABLE>
This is correct.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Sprockets »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
i have seen more failed cp pistons......not as many endyne</TD></TR></TABLE>
Most likely because there are far more boosted engines running CP than Endyn. But the "FACT" is they have a higher silicon content and can not handle temps like lower silicon pistons.
This doesn't mean there not great pistons. Courtney Green made over 800Hp on a set of Endyn pistons years ago.
I thought Endyn were just modified Wiseco pistons?</TD></TR></TABLE>
This is correct.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Sprockets »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
i have seen more failed cp pistons......not as many endyne</TD></TR></TABLE>
Most likely because there are far more boosted engines running CP than Endyn. But the "FACT" is they have a higher silicon content and can not handle temps like lower silicon pistons.
This doesn't mean there not great pistons. Courtney Green made over 800Hp on a set of Endyn pistons years ago.
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10-03-2007, 10:16 AM
#8
Re: (trickeng)
I've always heard good things about Wiseco. Where did you get this information about the silicon content? Please edit the second quote, by the way. It's not from me.
10-03-2007, 11:07 AM
#11
Re: (trickeng)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by trickeng »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It is not just preference. The Endyn slugs have a higher silicon content and can't withstand as much heat so they are less forgiving when your tune isn't onpoint. Higher silicon mean less thermal expansion which is why Endyn can recommend such tight piston to wall clearances.
Boosted, I recommend CP. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Are you sure about this? I thought that the Endyn's were 2618 and the CP were 4032 (higher silicon content).
Boosted, I recommend CP. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Are you sure about this? I thought that the Endyn's were 2618 and the CP were 4032 (higher silicon content).
10-03-2007, 03:52 PM
#12
Re: (Jared)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jared »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I hate people who ask questions before they actually try something, I hate stupid people, I hate people who talk **** but who have never done anything, I hate people who continually ask the same question without trying the advice given, so theres a 98% chance that I hate YOU.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Smoke a bowl or something.
Smoke a bowl or something.
10-03-2007, 06:30 PM
#13
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Re: (Sprockets)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Sprockets »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Smoke a bowl or something. </TD></TR></TABLE> 
Smoke a bowl or something.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
10-03-2007, 08:00 PM
#14
Re: (alterdcreations)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Sprockets »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I thought Endyn were just modified Wiseco pistons?</TD></TR></TABLE>
not entirely true. wiseco does make the pistons for endyn, but the design is all endyn.
not entirely true. wiseco does make the pistons for endyn, but the design is all endyn.
10-04-2007, 01:51 AM
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Re: trying to choose pistons endyn or cp pistons? turbo application. (superturboprelude)
well dropped my block today off at laskey racing decided to go with cp pistons i will post pics of my rebuild soon
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10-02-2007 03:03 AM
