is it true?
On Fire!
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,078
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From: Iowa
Re: is it true? (paul_vang)
Hmmmm now this is a pritty interesting topic Paul, now can someone please explain why it shouldn't be done?? I know that those seals use that Nikoseel (whatever its spelled
) but I'm very curious why it wouldn't work..A friend of mine just rebuilt his H22a short block using some Wiseco 8.5:1 pistons, Eagle rods and ACL bearings and hasn't had a problem yet, his rings sealed fine and the car runs good but it hasn't been put under the pressures of boost yet
..Adi
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Re: is it true? (paul_vang)
here, i'll do the filtering for you
originally posted in the Prelude Forum:
by 4bidden
by GudeH23a
originally posted in the Prelude Forum:
by 4bidden
here is what to expect if you dont sleeve before forged pistons...
good luck! lol
good luck! lol
Here is a little 411 for the people that want it. Pistons of high-performance are 99% of the time made of aluminum. The lighter the piston, the higher your engine can rev as well as obtaining power. Back in the 70's your little idea was introduced. All alloy engines used iron-coated aluminum pistons, basically meaning your block could be linerless. However, its expensive. Go to http://www.dictionary.com if you dont know what expensive means. Iron-coating your pistons does not deliver the performance that nikasil treatment provides.
Nikasil treatment basically coats a layer of nickel-silicon carbide to the inner surface of aluminum cylinders. It will generate even less friction then cast iron sleeves and basically everything is enhanced. But guess what? Your engine uses a fiber reinforced metal cylinder sleeve.
The FRM process is as follows:
A fiber-based material in the form of cylinder sleeve is first inserted to the die of the block. Melted liquid aluminium is poured into the die and integrate with the fiber sleeve. Then the cylinder wall is machined to the desire bore dimension, leaving only 0.5 mm thickness to the fiber sleeve which covers the cylinder wall. It generates lower friction than iron liner, thus improves rev and power. Moreover, the fiber sleeve reinforces the block, allowing the distance between adjacent bores to be reduced yet maintain mechanical strength.
Nikasil treatment basically coats a layer of nickel-silicon carbide to the inner surface of aluminum cylinders. It will generate even less friction then cast iron sleeves and basically everything is enhanced. But guess what? Your engine uses a fiber reinforced metal cylinder sleeve.
The FRM process is as follows:
A fiber-based material in the form of cylinder sleeve is first inserted to the die of the block. Melted liquid aluminium is poured into the die and integrate with the fiber sleeve. Then the cylinder wall is machined to the desire bore dimension, leaving only 0.5 mm thickness to the fiber sleeve which covers the cylinder wall. It generates lower friction than iron liner, thus improves rev and power. Moreover, the fiber sleeve reinforces the block, allowing the distance between adjacent bores to be reduced yet maintain mechanical strength.
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Re: is it true? (Speedworks801)
You can rebuild and use forged pistons, you just have to use a dry lubricant, on install.
Re: is it true? (Boosted97Lude)
Boosted97Lude
how many miles were on 4bidden's motor when he found this problem? I was wondering, because that looks pretty serious, and what pistons are they? Wiseco's rings quote that they can be used with nikasil cylinder lining, so, why wouldn't their pistons that go with the rings work also?
mike
how many miles were on 4bidden's motor when he found this problem? I was wondering, because that looks pretty serious, and what pistons are they? Wiseco's rings quote that they can be used with nikasil cylinder lining, so, why wouldn't their pistons that go with the rings work also?
mike
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,341
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From: You wish I was..., USA
Re: is it true? (Boosted97Lude)
if you plan on using forged pistons, then yes, it is 100% accurate that you cannot use stock H22 FRM sleeves
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Joined: Jun 2001
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From: houston, tx, usa
Re: is it true? (tzsir)
Ive read some where about the wiseco's that you can run them without resleeving.
From what I understand its the rings they produced for it. But for me if you worried about it just go the same route that motormatrix did on his race car , Just get some ARI sleeves there like 200 dollars and you have the mind that your motor is resleeved.just my 2 pennies-pdang
From what I understand its the rings they produced for it. But for me if you worried about it just go the same route that motormatrix did on his race car , Just get some ARI sleeves there like 200 dollars and you have the mind that your motor is resleeved.just my 2 pennies-pdang
Re: is it true? (bambooluv)
How are the ARI sleeves? I just saw them, and are they available for the stock bore H22? I know that they aren't a full sleeve like GE produces, but basically are used to resleeve scarred cylinder walls and the like.
mike
mike
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Joined: Mar 2002
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From: sacramento, ca, usa
Re: is it true? (tzsir)
has anyone tried these pistons from wiesco or je??? untill i see a motor running with these pistons for 40k miles under boost i'll stick with resleeving. personally i don't see how it would really help having different rings, when u look at to pic above and the whole damn side of the pistons is scraped up...But if u guys wanna go cheap and risk your block and pistons go right ahead...
Re: is it true? (flip1199)
well, my motor was taken apart after 1000 miles, and no signs of any wear yet. I will pop it apart again at 2000 and at 5000 after that. I will keep you guys updated. Everything looks good, so like I said, we'll keep you updated. I have another block that is getting work right now, so, if I have any problems, I will be going to a sleeved block. But, if I don't have to, I won't.
thanks,
Mike (running forged w/o sleeves)
and still running
thanks,
Mike (running forged w/o sleeves)
and still running
Re: is it true? (Boosted97Lude)
Any body know where to get these forged pistons that are supposed to work with stock sleeves???
go ahead, do it and learn the hard way
go ahead, do it and learn the hard way
that was about 6 years ago...looks like he was wrong about imports...
point is: change and new things are great until proven not to be
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Re: is it true? (1320development)
that's what my V8 loving auto teacher used to tell me when I was still in high school
that was about 6 years ago...looks like he was wrong about imports...
point is: change and new things are great until proven not to be
that was about 6 years ago...looks like he was wrong about imports...
point is: change and new things are great until proven not to be
