Txdragon

Anyone have any experience with Topline parts? TOPLINE Connecting Rod |

Boosting the D15B7 and keeping the internals as close to stock as possible, and have not found much by way of this manufacturer. The rods are "OEM" replacement, but look much beefier than Honda's version. I have found some negative feedback in regards to their DSM stuff, but only turbo vs non. Not much really from the Honda community at all, and none of it was regarding rods. So.. ANYONE that has any other info on these rods for Honda, lemme know! I have found other rod options, but refuse to pay the exorbitant and ridiculous prices for them. Crower wanting near 1000 for a set? Nope nope nope.. Anywho. Please do not clutter this post up with "just swap, don't do anything to the B7" blah blah. There are reasons for this build that supersede any opinions that may exist in regards to its direction other than my own.

Thanks for any input!

Txdragon

No experiences with Topline? hmmmmmm...

Txdragon

So I've found my route for the B7..

Maxpeeding rods H-beams.
Nippon PG6 teflon coated pistons w/ hastings rings
Cometic 0.030 MLS head gasket
OEM bearings (intended, not sure how they'll work with the rods, still looking into this)
ARP head and rod bolts

This piston and rod combo will put me at a piston to deck height of .01. HG will put my CR at 10.1:1 with this combination. It looks good on paper!


Shouldn't need to rebuild the head. It's a 95 and word has it they were built using better A6 valve springs due to an outage of the B7 springs back in 93. I'm not leaking any oil past the guides, so I don't see any reason to rip the head apart.

Turbo kit will come from CX Racing. T04e kit. .50 a/r compressor, .63 a/r exhaust.
38mm 8psi WG
Ram manifold
New motor mounts
stock fuel system and map (staying at what they can hold for now until I upgrade the turbo and WG)
Neptune RTP.

Currently have Skunk2 pro series intake, Skunk2 70mm TB, homemade cold air intake, 3" exhaust, header (won't matter due to swap with turbo mani), stage 3 XTD clutch and 8lb flywheel, innovate LC2 wideband and Neptune RTP. Have upgraded the entire suspension system, only thing I have not done to it is rear sway bar.

Not wanting to swap to the Z6 as I don't want to mess with vtec tuning on top of turbo tuning. I think non-vtec platforms would benefit just fine with boost anyways.

Proposed additions for this build puts me in a 1300 dollar range. All other engine mods would put me just under 2k total. Not too bad considering it has been mentioned on several occasions the B7 can not be reliably built without dropping tons of cash into it.

Can't wait to get this underway. Build time is coming close!!

Autoworks

What is that?

Txdragon

T3/T04e turbo. .50 a/r compressor .63 a/r exhaust. You should know what it is, you sell similar items on your site

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Txdragon, I think what he means is that perhaps you know more than what the compressor& exhaust housing sizes are (.50a/r compressor can hold a variety of compressor wheel sizes. same with the .63A/R exhaust.) . He's referring to the inducer/exducer of the compressor & exhaust wheels.



This is being asked because perhaps the kit you're proposing might contain a turbocharger that is WAY too large for your use and may bring some undesirable results.

Here's a decent article on A/R housings from a diesel site. Might be of some use.

http://www.dieseladdict.com/ar-turbo-housing-ratio/

My apologies for the larger picture.

Autoworks

I sell a lot of T3/T04E turbos...that range from 350hp to 700ish hp...with that same compressor and turbine housing configuration along with specific and accurate wheel measurements

Shodan is more of an elaborator on forums than I...he summed up what I would have eventually got around to (at some point)

Txdragon

Ahh, I see. It's a t3/t04e 50 trim. According to the compressor map, which I had to really DIG to find one (seems that only the big guns out there have readily available maps), and running my info through VE calculator and This calculator shows that my intended boost of 10psi should be golden for my start, with room to wiggle into the back end of my goal. That also presumes the accuracy of the map to be nearest to spot on as it should be. Could it be overkill? Possibly. But the flow rate seems fine. I know a 2860rs would be perfect for what I planned, but ugh, them water lines. I had initially planned for a PTE 5431 as well. From what I've looked at, what I chose seems pretty close to that, just a bit closer to budget friendly.

Autoworks

What is a "big gun"?...

Compressor maps don't really just "crossover" brand to "brand", mfg to mfg.unless the wheel is EXACTLY the same.

Some things look simple on paper (and web calculators)...then there's the real world where you have to actually put 2 and two together...

A 50 trim and a billet 54mm are in the same class/sizing/category etc...doesn't make them the "same". There are physical differences that will cause them to react differently.

"ebay" turbine housings usually have (usually being 99.99% of the time, especially w/ 5 bolt) different flange pitches on that shared ford 5 bolt pattern...meaning upgrading to a ""major brand" turbocharger in the future isn't a direct drop in affair...

Txdragon

"Big guns" is reference to the big names out there.. Borg warner, garrett, etc.
Not sure I quite understand where you're going with the upgrade drop in portion. Meaning the housing may not mate properly with the DP flange? That's what an angle grinder and welder is for lol! Too many possible solutions to that particular problem; Nothing additional needed being the least, custom fabrication being the worst. However, installation snags such as that were lower on my priority than were practical use. Physical characteristics of turbos being different. I understand that. Same way no 2 engines may not respond the same with identical setups. They are, well, different. Best thing to do is hunt down a kit that has similar characteristics to a known unit, and go from there, which is what I did in my particular case. Garrett offers a t3/t04e 50 trim unit identical to the one available in the kit I have picked out. Will it behave the same? Probably, probably not. But this could hold true for 2 identical units from the same manufacturer based on the premise of part "uniqueness", just like an engine. Would I expect it to perform identically? No. I have no illusion there that a clone would.
Overall, Shodan summed it up best when he said that particular turbo may be a bit large for my initial intention. I initially saw that in the flow map calculator. I may not see full potential at 10 psi as I will reach my max operating RPM before I hit the necessary flow rate for my target power gain. Again, if I did the math right, I'm only operating at 70% of the turbo's efficiency, and there is still some power left there, which is good for growth, but at 10psi, i'll not achieve anywhere near my target flow rate. I will make good power, but not more than 200hp before i'm backing off the pedal at 7k rpm.

Txdragon

Maybe I should just go ahead at this point and upgrade my maf, injectors, and fuel pump and work this puppy proper? That's only about 300 bucks more on top of what I have here. and this current plan still puts me under my 2k budget, so it could be factored in..

Autoworks

Experience and real applications will show you things that the "search button" won't... that's why some chime in with info that's both obvious and covert (without drastic explanation) at the same time. There's a margin there, even when you think have it all figured out.


Map...I would say that injectors and a decent pump are not optional, but mandatory on any FI build here ...but I'm sure the search would say you can get away with stock if you stay within x parameters (which is foolish, but...it is what it is)

Txdragon

Yeah, i meant map.. lol. stupid phone.. Only reason for keeping stock fuel stuff is because it has been noted the stock system is good up to 200-250. And if the stock map is good to 14 psi, that's actually above where I wanted to begin. HOWEVER, now Searching for info on my build has been a LONG time in the making. Most of the time spent has turned up tons of dead ends and dropped projects. Some info is viable, but you've gotta sort through the flaming BS in it to find useful info. I'm wondering whether or not i'll need to sleeve the block if I intend on pushing further. Haven't looked too far into that aspect just yet. Even searching youtube, I was only able to find 1 definitive D15B7 turbo video and the poster never really specified any internal mods. From general impression and interpretation, it was all stock. Not many people have really messed with the B7 since, and back when there were attempts, they all fizzled out like a bad fart for unknown reasons. CAll me a dreamer, but I am actually hoping to bring some life back to this particular platform and show that it won't take the exorbitant amounts of money to make it fun, as has been claimed in the past.

Autoworks

your avatar + that quote brought to mind this image...


...anyway, you are far from the need of sleeves at the power goal you are looking at (plus you are using a cast piston, IMO, if you are going to go through the trouble and expense of sleeving then use a forged piston...for a number of reasons). The fuel system on the other hand should be at the top of the list of "things to address"

Txdragon

^^ That is epic! Totally want to make that my new avatar lol

Autoworks

FWIW...here's a 50 trim next to a "50 trim"

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Amazing difference in size and profile. The "50trim" had nothing on the Garrett 50 trim

Txdragon

Just looking at the pics, that wouldn't be an easy upsale. I would have to see some teardown and measurements, side by side. Pics are deceiving at best and the best angle of a good comparison pic is showing the hot side, and to the average eye, looks pretty close to identical (with the exception of the 4 and 5 bolt flange being obvious).

Autoworks

Wasn't trying to upsale;you aren't going to upsale anyone whose convinced that a $50 replica is just as good as the $650 original. I'm simply showing for the sake of showing that the 2 are different in profile, which can be seen without even removing the covers/housings. There's nothing deceiving about the pics, they are what they are. An out the box Garrett T3/T04E 50 trim, and an "auction site 50 trim" (that I've used as a doorstop here for several years, pardon the dust). As I mentioned earlier, the "on paper theoretical comparisons" vs real world...

Txdragon

I genuinely appreciate the sentiment behind your doing, however, I never once said that a clone would perform identical to the unit it is modeled after. I'm not that daft lol! I am building on a working man's budget using the most reasonably reliable cloned kit I have researched that will put me in the realm of the power goal I have laid out. If I had 5,000 dollars to throw down, you're darn right I would go for the absolute best gear I could get my mitts on. I've tried putting together a list of cheaply sourced items; intercooler kit, etc, and using "better quality" parts; turbo and wg, and even the cost on that falls over what I have planned. It's actually more costly that way, With that being said, the point of, "well if you can't afford "the best", why bother modding?" It's not necessarily about the best. We all know top of the line will be the most expensive option, but the most expensive option isn't always needed to get the job done. What about reliability? As soon as I can find no horror stories from those using stuff like Borg Warner, PTE, and even Garrett, then I'll be harder pressed to seek only those options. Wait.. They say that those were user installation problems? Well, 2,000 dollar turbos are JUST as susceptible to install fault as are 200 dollar turbos it seems. None of them are immune. Seems the same problems noted between PTE and very similar failures in china turbos fall on oiling issues. Improper drain and/or feed, but it's easier to say the clone turbo is the problem because (insert crazy mechanical or quality control excuse here), but the PTE was "install errors". I haven't figured out why this would be other than the name. I'm more that happy to document and chronicle my install and timeline of use with frequent updates on my findings to add or detract from any rep these folks are receiving. EVERYBODY has to start somewhere. Go-Autoworks was once a place not known, weren't you?

Autoworks

The image references that statement. The 2 turbos aren't identical. The compressor size/profile is different. The turbine size/style is different...They are going to perform differently. That is straight forward.

The rest of your post is out in left field somewhere, but I'll try to address it.

-"Best" is relative and will be heavily opinionated. A Garrett 50 trim would only be considered best IMO in a very small category. It's a solid turbo overall that works well in A LOT of scenarios. It's been virtually unchanged in decades.
- Buying a "cheap" part just to replace it with a "good" part is a questionable thing, but to each their own. That "cheap part" money could just be spent on the better part the first time.
-Top of the line will not always be the most expensive...in this realm, I'd say it rarely is. Top of the line and best fit for the application are not the same.
-I love reliability.
-As soon as you can find no horror stories...stop looking, and you'll stop finding them. You are talking about parts that in most cases are used, abused, and sold several thousand times a year. Quality parts are proven to handle the abuse better while continuing to perform as designed...nothing is indestructible.
- You keep referencing PTE and best in the same statement...that's interesting...anyway
-Again, real world vs internet/paper theory...everything can't be explained on a forum. Everyone learns from experience.
-Documentation is good. It may help some that are stuck in this same repetitive topic rutt (copies vs originals)

"EVERYBODY has to start somewhere. Go-Autoworks was once a place not known, weren't you?"...I totally missed the point there, but sure. It's still new to many, and very old to some. What you are attempting to do in general (budget build + boost) isn't new at all.

Txdragon

Oh, this I certainly know. Although the events of today may bring about a few minor changes. I found a guy local to me selling "an unknown 4 cyl Honda engine" that upon my inspection, the engine stamp is just simply D15B. I looked it over and found no VTEC solenoid on the head. It is fuel injected and not carbed. I offered 120 bucks and he took it, just to get the thing out of his garage. It was left there by the previous tenant who had moved out over a year prior and had not been heard from again. I did some searching and found the head stamp, P2A-7, which appears to be almost a unicorn to find. The only bit of info I find points toward this being a non-VTEC ZC engine with a y7 head? I. From what I gather, this should be a better block for me to build. Strikingly similar to the B7, just a bit better internals. I am still looking into everything I can currently to see what direction I will need to go. To be continued, I guess. I am still in major research mode..

Autoworks

D15B was stamped on several motors...in both VTEC and non VTEC...FI and carb, it is prob just a 96-00 OBDII non vtec SOHC motor. If it's vertical TB then it's basically just a Y7...

Txdragon

I have all my findings on this Listed here