Pootin around still gathering crap for my engine. And im stuck on injectors, with a goal around 300whp. I figured id go the "traditional" DSM route for this small goal but with full intentions of later upgrading my turbo and tune down the road, is it a bad thing to get some ID 1000's now?

Is there a thing as TOO much injector? I'll be running 93 octane NOT e85. I would just like to avoid spending a couple hundred down the road on bigger injectors and i have heard the ID's are VERY nice from a tuning standpoint. Should i turn and run to DSM? Or pick up some ID's now and not worry?

 

ID1000cc injectors won't negatively effect your performance at 300 whp, in fact they have a better spray pattern then dsm injectors & a lot of the injectors on the market.

I would go with the ID injectors to prevent from having to rely on a old/dirty injector and wiring in a resistor box etc.

 

Thats exactly the 2 main reasons i wanted to avoid DSM's. But i have heard the "talk" about having huge injectors will be hard to maintain idle and low RPM performance will be very lack luster and gas guzzling. Is there any truth to that?

 

i tend to disagree with this statement, a firehose is still a firehose no matter how long it stays on. while the ID 1000's have a good spray pattern for 1000cc injectors, they do not have a better spray pattern then smaller injectors, especially bosch injectors of say 550cc give or take, because theres less fuel flowing through the injector, it doesnt accumulate large droplets as easily. That said, you can run larger then required injectors with no issues but if your not gona ever use something that large, size appropriately to leave yourself headroom necessary for improvement without going too large.

Also, never ever seen problems with the dsm injectors as long as they were appropriately reconditioned for use. Old injectors spray like crap because their old and dirty. My bosch design2 injectors have a better spray pattern then RC injectors by far.

 

WRONG

not all 1000cc are made equally, on my own setup i experienced the difference between 650cc precisions and ID1000's.

the 650's where complete crap and actually had the suffistication of a garden hose. the id1000's idled like stock at 14.7+ afr, came trough emissions testing (wich is very strict in my country) and no negative effect whatsoever on idling, startup, driveability or mileage.

ID 1000's are fine on anything bigger needed then OEM injectors, all motor guys even found power in switching from smaller injectors to the ID1000's

injectors that are fine on 150-700+whp setups are a ideal investment in my book !!!

 

no, its not wrong, what you experienced was the difference between two different style of injectors, lucas disc type, and pintle style injectors, thats all. Lucas disc arent designed for use on honda's but people that tend to follow russ collins theory of injectors will argue that they work better.

 

I'm just kidding.. you just seemed so affected by Spawn32's statement I had to joke a little, but please understand I am not belittling the unique situation that you encountered.

I tend to agree here. Perhaps maybe in super ALL MOTOR Drag racing are there those that use ID 1000cc injectors for their builds, but it is not at all necessary for the power used on every build. Its just more commonly used now because of the ease of installation, unique fuel dispersion pattern, and lack of resistor box on the off-chance that people want to Grow larger for a bigger turbocharger later. For maybe 60% of the people on this forum that may be true, but not for everyone with a daily driver that tends to be more budgeted.

 

i had pictures somewhere of this, i wish i could find them lol

 

this is the only one i was able to dig up, pintle style bosch vs lucas disc type

 

Very informative. I wasn't really up on injector tech and had no idea there were different kinds :shrugs:

I assume thats the Bosch on the left with the wider, more misty spray pattern?

 

correct, if i could find the picture of two 1000cc injectors next to each other, you would see similar spray patterns, but the pintle style looks like a firehose with a fan pattern, all i could come up with was this video.

http://youtu.be/38dAGr1ZSUQ

while the pattern is good for the injector, it still sprays like a firehose because it has to let so much fuel out. So while you can use it, because you can dial down the duty cycle so it only stays open as long as it needs to to meet your required AFR, it still is gona spray like that whenever its open. Where as if you size your injectors properly, you can get better atomization and run the injector longer. I run 420cc bosch injectors, and while i only run them to about 60-75% duty cycle, they are still small enough where they get excellent atomization and atomization = efficiency.

 

http://www.sdsefi.com/injectors.htm

that should help explain different injector styles, which is a whole different topic all together when it comes to atomization

 

I'm new to the Honda world and learning myself but I can tell you from playing with Fords for many years that to large of an injector does not atomize well at low flow rates and gives poor idle and often poor throttle response in lower rpms. This is why you traditionally always got the right size injector without going over kill.

Recently though this has changed with new technology. The new Siemen Deka injectors are changing all that. They've managed to build large high flowing injectors that produce low flow spray patterns like OEM for nice clean smooth idles and crisp throttle response. Now guys in the Mustang world are jumping straight to as large an injector as they for see themselves using in the future with blowers and E85 with no side affects now.

http://www.siemensdeka.com/

Perhaps similar technology exists for the Hondas too? I don't know. For now I just got some 450cc DSMs myself as I know it's tried and proven in the Honda world and I'm still learning about turbo Hondas.

 

get the ID1000's
i bought a set of used dsm 450 blue tops that were "cleaned and tested". went to the dyno to be tuned, and the car kept taking a **** at 5k rpm's. after 6 hrs of diag, i bought a set of ID1000's and made my 300whp goal.

after a year and half on 300whp, i'm doing a new set up to run 550whp, and will be using the same ID1000's. I just have to bump up the fuel pressure so i don't max out the duty cycle.

 

Go with the ID's you will not regret it.

 

Siemen Dekas are very, very good at atomization as well as the Injector Dynamic series. You can't go wrong.

 

Have to say, I just did an upgrade from precision 680's to ID1000's last night, and the difference is HUGE. Getting a good smooth idle out of the ID1000's was NO problem, and having enough injector for quite a healthy amount of power is great. Go for the ID1000's. You wont regret it.