igo4bmx

is that right?
I was driving my newly built motor... took a turn at a very slow speed and all off the sudden my car felt really strange (hesitation)
keep in mind it is untuned, but i have not driven the car hard.
after that turn, i tried to drive and it was bogging... to the point i was flooring it and couldn't even see boost..
i pulled over and saw the bov wide open while idling...any thoughts?

Frozen E

Tials are supposed to be open at idle. Once you tap the throttle the spring overcomes the vacuum/lack of and it'll close.

bluebullet

should be closed at idle, correct me if I'm wrong. Mine was always closed at idle.

Frozen E

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bluebullet &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">should be closed at idle, correct me if I'm wrong. Mine was always closed at idle.</TD></TR></TABLE>

My $50 offer still stands.

bluebullet

paypal bluebullet99@hotmail.com

Boosted Chemist

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by IslandSi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Tials are supposed to be open at idle. Once you tap the throttle the spring overcomes the vacuum/lack of and it'll close.</TD></TR></TABLE>

mine is also open

BlueShadow

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bluebullet &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">should be closed at idle, correct me if I'm wrong. Mine was always closed at idle.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Now in this case IslandSi is correct. The BOV supposed to be open at idle (vacuum). Take your BOV and suck on the nipple and you will see your BOV open up. If your is not opening at idle there might be something wrong. If you know it opens at really high vacuum (hard shift) then your BOV is ok.

Frozen E

Haha, I misread the other thread. Wastegates are supposed to be closed at idle. Tial BOV's are supposed to be open. So bluebullet, let's just say that we break even on the $50 thing.

bluebullet

I think we need to determine which way the correct operation is supposed to be. A lot of people say theirs are open, others say theirs is closed. That has been established, I know it has something to do with the vacuum vs spring rating. I'll look into it. If I'm wrong I guess were even Islandsi However I don't see why you would be wanting to vent off airflow during idle.

bluebullet

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by IslandSi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Haha, I misread the other thread. Wastegates are supposed to be closed at idle. Tial BOV's are supposed to be open. So bluebullet, let's just say that we break even on the $50 thing.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

It's all good buddy, I wouldn't take someones money for something like this anyway.

Frozen E

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bluebullet &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think we need to determine which way the correct operation is supposed to be. A lot of people say theirs are open, others say theirs is closed. That has been established, I know it has something to do with the vacuum vs spring rating. I'll look into it. If I'm wrong I guess were even Islandsi However I don't see why you would be wanting to vent off airflow during idle.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Like I said in the other thread, you can get a Tial to be closed at idle by simply not hooking the port up to a vacuum source. The valve would still work off spring pressure, it's just that you'd have a higher possibility of compressor surge from the extra pressure in the charge pipe. Higher pressure would be required to open up the valve.
Also, at idle you're not venting off anything through an open BOV. You're actually sucking in air since the motor is working under vacuum conditions. The turbo isn't making any boost at idle.
Let's just call this a draw. Ok? I'd still like to see any kind of info you can dig up regarding this.

BlueShadow

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bluebullet &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">However I don't see why you would be wanting to vent off airflow during idle.</TD></TR></TABLE>

You shouldn't look at it that way. If you ask "why is my BOV open at 20 in/hg of vacuum" you will understand why. Your BOV doesn't care if your car is idling at a stop or if you had just let off the gas and shifted. All your BOV knows is that at 20 in/hg of vacuum it is supposed to be open. For example a hard shift would land you at 25-30 in/hg right? but if your shift is not as hard your vacuum wont be that high during transitionso it probably lands at around 15-20 in/hg. A soft shift would land your vacuum in the same place where your idle vacuum is.

igo4bmx

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by IslandSi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Like I said in the other thread, you can get a Tial to be closed at idle by simply not hooking the port up to a vacuum source. The valve would still work off spring pressure, it's just that you'd have a higher possibility of compressor surge from the extra pressure in the charge pipe. Higher pressure would be required to open up the valve.
Also, at idle you're not venting off anything through an open BOV. You're actually sucking in air since the motor is working under vacuum conditions. The turbo isn't making any boost at idle.
Let's just call this a draw. Ok? I'd still like to see any kind of info you can dig up regarding this.</TD></TR></TABLE>

at idle, my bov was pushing air out.. not sucking in

trentepic

i thought the bov was closed at idle, idle defined as no boost in charge pipes, and no gas pedal input there for in vac also, and that the spring held it shut if theres no boost and no vacuum, but if u have vac and boost pushin on the valve side it pushes it open, other wise ud suck in unfiltered air in right? dang i actually think u guys are right though now that i think about it some things more sense now, like the bov has like the wisler atatchment deally or some smallfileter atatchment kind like pcv breather... and i had to adj the setting on ine all the way down into the body where u cant lock a nut on it to keep closed at idle, and my bov does sound goofy.... dang

BlueShadow

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by trentepic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i thought the bov was closed at idle, idle defined as no boost in charge pipes, and no gas pedal input there for in vac also, and that the spring held it shut if theres no boost and no vacuum, but if u have vac and boost pushin on the valve side it pushes it open, other wise ud suck in unfiltered air in right? dang i actually think u guys are right though now that i think about it some things more sense now, like the bov has like the wisler atatchment deally or some smallfileter atatchment kind like pcv breather... and i had to adj the setting on ine all the way down into the body where u cant lock a nut on it to keep closed at idle, and my bov does sound goofy.... dang</TD></TR></TABLE>

yah, no boost and no vacuum the BOV would be shut. Under boost the BOV nipple and valve both have pressure on them so it's kinda equalized. When the BOV nipple gets vacuum it pulls back on the valve and the pressurized air helps it out by pushing it open. It doesn't take a lot of vacuum to start pulling back on the valve. I think that spring is there to close the intake up prior to shutdown. Cause right before you turn engine off you are idlking in vacuum right? and it wouldn't be a good idea to shut off the car and leave the BOV open so that's why there's a spring there. So that way you dont have any critters or anything crawling up into your charge piping while the car is off. hehehe

Wideopentuning

There are a few different springs the Tial can come with. I had an issue on a Maf equipped car with the softer spring. The valve was open at idle and the car wouldn't run.

alex#2

I'm having this exact problem with my full-race setup. Todd @ FR said it's supposed to be open. However, I'm not exactly comfortable with my car sucking in unfiltered air through the BOV under vacuum.

Also, my buddy with a FR backdoor Intercooler has the same BOV and it stays closed under idle. I have the A/C intercooler plumbing but this should not make a **** of difference.

I'm either going to use a stiffer spring or shim the spring I have now.

turboEGhatch

Air should be being pushed out of the tial, not sucked in. Even if it were sucked in, you're injesting such a minute amount that it doesn't even matter.

speeddave

it all has to do with what spring you have in the tial. the stiffer ones dont allow them to open at idle. i was told by the person i bought my tial off of, that they werent supposed to open at idle, so he recommend i get the 9lb one in it....?

DaX

iTrader: (1)

My BOV plunger rests on the seal at idle...if I blip the throttle plate, the BOV will open then settle back down.

alex#2

you're right, air is pushed out. Guess I shouldn't worry as much now.

Frozen E

I want to know how some of you guys have air being pushed OUT of your open BOV when the car is sitting there at idle. There's no way in hell. Your turbo is NOT making boost at idle. I want all of you guys that say your BOV has air coming OUT of it at idle to take some toilet paper and test which way the air is going. Just hold a single sheet up to where you think the air is coming out. I bet you guys all just felt some air flow (going IN) and thought the air was coming out.
Not a big deal, but there's no way your charge pipe is going to have positive pressure on it at idle. NO WAY. Just think about it. Common sense says so.

WEldin4fun

I am a TiAL dealer. There BOV is supposed to be open at idle and any touch of the throttle it should close. And at ide the BOV should be blowing air out. Its really funny you guys are putting larger springs in. I normally have to take the 7psi spring out and cut two coils off them to elimate the Surge it gets from too much spring. I would also recommend hooking it up to A direct line to the Manifold.

Frozen E

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by WEldin4fun &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I am a TiAL dealer. And at ide the BOV should be blowing air out.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I honestly don't understand how this thing can be blowing out air. Somebody enlighten me please. Somebody first told me about this and I didn't believe them. I actually went as far as taking my vac/boost gauge off the vacuum manifold that's tapped off my brake booster line and rigged it into my charge pipe where one of the stock sensors hooks into the intake pipe. The gauge barely read any vacuum at all, but it sure as hell wasn't reading positive pressure.
I'm still waiting for somebody to tell me how a BOV can possibly be blowing OUT air at idle.

Si Shane

What RPM is your turbine spinning at at idle?? I'm willing to bet the compressor wheel is flowing more than the IACV is flowing...