Throttle Body size question.
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Throttle Body size question.
I am currently in the stages of building my b16a3 for high boost (22-25 psi) which will also be daily driven at 14 psi. I am currently purchasing my intake manifold (victor x) and now going to buy a throttle body, I was leaning towards a 70mm but wanted your opinions....thanks
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From: SC61ville, Brooklyn, NY/TX, USA
Re: Throttle Body size question. (quik sol)
Contact USDMPArtGirl, Marie sells them @ Great prices. I'm getting an STR 70mm TB. She knows me, so tell her Fred is getting one too!
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From: Pembroke Pines, Florida, United States
Re: Throttle Body size question. (Bailhatch)
curious about that too. i remember a while back a friend of mine said things like that spoon ventuli plate or whatever for the im isn't good for boost because of how it makes the airflow. wondering if it's similar reasoning?
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From: HOT HOT Phoenix Ouch its HOT
Re: Throttle Body size question. (ZoRG)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ZoRG »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If the inlet piping ID is only 60mm, why would it be benificial to have a TB that is 75mm?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Very good point, but that's why we make grinders, and drills to tap new holes..
Unless you're talking about the charge pipes, then just buy bigger ones..
When FORCING air through a TB as is done in FORCED INDUCTION (turbo's) the tapers cause turbulance especially in high RPMs which in turn affects spool time, and intake temps in a negative way. Essentially the best set-up would be as even as possible accept in the bends of charge pipes where a slightly larger diameter would be prefered...
In N/A applications you're pulling air through the opening where a taper helps to get the air into a denser pattern with less turbulance.
It's all in how the air is getting in there. Make sense? I hope so....
edit: change of wording to make more sense...
Very good point, but that's why we make grinders, and drills to tap new holes..
Unless you're talking about the charge pipes, then just buy bigger ones..
When FORCING air through a TB as is done in FORCED INDUCTION (turbo's) the tapers cause turbulance especially in high RPMs which in turn affects spool time, and intake temps in a negative way. Essentially the best set-up would be as even as possible accept in the bends of charge pipes where a slightly larger diameter would be prefered...
In N/A applications you're pulling air through the opening where a taper helps to get the air into a denser pattern with less turbulance.
It's all in how the air is getting in there. Make sense? I hope so....
edit: change of wording to make more sense...
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Re: Throttle Body size question. (nd_styles)
I see what you mean about turbulance, has anyone ever tried a roller throttle body? or a "suck through type app", where the throttle sits in front of the turbo, I have some pics of old F1 turbo engines, and they ran them like that, let me upload one.
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From: Alb., NM, USA
Re: Throttle Body size question. (ZoRG)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ZoRG »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I see what you mean about turbulance, has anyone ever tried a roller throttle body? or a "suck through type app", where the throttle sits in front of the turbo, I have some pics of old F1 turbo engines, and they ran them like that, let me upload one.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Does this thing fit in a Honda??? jk
</TD></TR></TABLE>Does this thing fit in a Honda??? jk
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Re: Throttle Body size question. (shadow103rd)
Its a 1.5L engine. Notice where the TB is, also notice the long runners, the guy I spoke to at BMW that was involved with the team, said they were so long cause the car "only" revved to about 10500rpm.
here is another one, you can clearly see the TB here.
here is another one, you can clearly see the TB here.
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From: HOT HOT Phoenix Ouch its HOT
Re: Throttle Body size question. (ZoRG)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ZoRG »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Its a 1.5L engine. Notice where the TB is, also notice the long runners, the guy I spoke to at BMW that was involved with the team, said they were so long cause the car "only" revved to about 10500rpm.
here is another one, you can clearly see the TB here.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Good eye I was wondering how long it would take someone to catch on. The TB is in the best place because it can't offer a restriction to the already pressurized, and heated air. Therefor lower intake temps, and obviously smoother flow. Did he mention that those long runner where for a certain aspect ratio in the power band?
I'm actually suprise more people haven't tried this yet... Our biggest problem is the throttle cable, and TPS sensor. The MAP sensor should be moved to the manifold to remain in the actual air-flow into the engine. The only problem would be the BOV. Maybe an electronically controlled one (like a solenoid based one) ran off the TPS... A BOV isn't really nessessary(sp?) in a full-race application.
Good idea maybe someone should try it.
here is another one, you can clearly see the TB here.
</TD></TR></TABLE>Good eye
I was wondering how long it would take someone to catch on. The TB is in the best place because it can't offer a restriction to the already pressurized, and heated air. Therefor lower intake temps, and obviously smoother flow. Did he mention that those long runner where for a certain aspect ratio in the power band?I'm actually suprise more people haven't tried this yet... Our biggest problem is the throttle cable, and TPS sensor. The MAP sensor should be moved to the manifold to remain in the actual air-flow into the engine. The only problem would be the BOV. Maybe an electronically controlled one (like a solenoid based one) ran off the TPS... A BOV isn't really nessessary(sp?) in a full-race application.
Good idea maybe someone should try it.
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Re: Throttle Body size question. (nd_styles)
You nailed it, the BOV is actually not at all neccesary in this type of setup.
I asked him what rpm they were running, he said "10500rpm, thats the reason for the long primaries" I think it would be fairly simple to do a setup like this, however I think you need a turbo with a carbon seal, I think you can upgrade any turbo, not sure. Maybe one of the turbo experts can jump in here. I agree with you that this is problably the best way to do it, I might actually look into this.
Cheers
I asked him what rpm they were running, he said "10500rpm, thats the reason for the long primaries" I think it would be fairly simple to do a setup like this, however I think you need a turbo with a carbon seal, I think you can upgrade any turbo, not sure. Maybe one of the turbo experts can jump in here. I agree with you that this is problably the best way to do it, I might actually look into this
.Cheers
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Re: Throttle Body size question. (ZoRG)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ZoRG »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You nailed it, the BOV is actually not at all neccesary in this type of setup.
I asked him what rpm they were running, he said "10500rpm, thats the reason for the long primaries" I think it would be fairly simple to do a setup like this, however I think you need a turbo with a carbon seal, I think you can upgrade any turbo, not sure. Maybe one of the turbo experts can jump in here. I agree with you that this is problably the best way to do it, I might actually look into this.
Cheers</TD></TR></TABLE>
You only need a carbon seal if its a draw threw system. In this application there is no fuel passing through the compressor housing since some sort of EFI is being used. Carbon seals are what people had to use on their air cooled VWs.
art
I asked him what rpm they were running, he said "10500rpm, thats the reason for the long primaries" I think it would be fairly simple to do a setup like this, however I think you need a turbo with a carbon seal, I think you can upgrade any turbo, not sure. Maybe one of the turbo experts can jump in here. I agree with you that this is problably the best way to do it, I might actually look into this
.Cheers</TD></TR></TABLE>
You only need a carbon seal if its a draw threw system. In this application there is no fuel passing through the compressor housing since some sort of EFI is being used. Carbon seals are what people had to use on their air cooled VWs.
art
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Re: Throttle Body size question. (ZoRG)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ZoRG »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I see what you mean about turbulance, has anyone ever tried a roller throttle body? or a "suck through type app", where the throttle sits in front of the turbo, I have some pics of old F1 turbo engines, and they ran them like that, let me upload one.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
that looks sick!!!
</TD></TR></TABLE>that looks sick!!!
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Re: Throttle Body size question. (quik sol)
so, in theory, to do this on a boosted honda, all you need to do is relocate the tps and throttle body, and extend the throttle cable?
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From: Northwest Tri Cities Kennewick, WA, USA
Re: Throttle Body size question. (wantboost)
I have never seen that before. Does anyone know of the benefit of this? Or is it just a convenience thing for certain engine designs? Hmmm....
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Re: Throttle Body size question. (Hondaddict)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hondaddict »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have never seen that before. Does anyone know of the benefit of this? Or is it just a convenience thing for certain engine designs? Hmmm....</TD></TR></TABLE>
On the street it will lag more, because you won't be boosting all the time, on a track though different story, while first gear might lag a bit more, after that it would be very lag friendly since there is zero surge on gearshifts.
F1 engineers said that their drivers "Don't know what lag is".
On the street it will lag more, because you won't be boosting all the time, on a track though different story, while first gear might lag a bit more, after that it would be very lag friendly since there is zero surge on gearshifts.
F1 engineers said that their drivers "Don't know what lag is".
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