<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Turbo-charged &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

i think a gt30r would be the answer to the question here. honestly, with an sc61 on the car........ its either spinning or driver error thats causing the car to not move anywhere in first and 2nd gear........its surely isnt a "lag" problem.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Dude, the car doesnt spin, my guage doesnt read even 1 psi before the time I mentioned, the bov doesnt even go off till it hits that 1psi. dont you think I know what lag is? seriously how is lag driver error? Im not building boost until over 4k. your right it must be me..


Modified by Boostage at 3:30 PM 8/12/2006

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Boostage &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Tony I know the technology of the Gt30R is better than the sc61, but I just cant shake the feeling that I would still not be happy with the response of it. I been doing some research on DSM turbos. and they all seem to be so small but support massive hp. and able to sustain 22psi+ boost levels for long periods of time. but anyway, wouldnt a t04e .60 trim offer significantly more 3fd gear pull than a 28rs?</TD></TR></TABLE>

hey man, you need to look into the the 30r turbo series like everyone here is suggesting. Believe me, it is going to respond MUCH better then the sc61 you have now, and it will certainly maintain the power your looking for in the high rpms. I would look around and find some dyno graphs of cars running this turbo, you won't be dissapointed. IMO, it is the middle ground between the 28rs and a larger turbo, your not gonna get the huge power you want with the super fast spooling 28rs, but with the 30r it will spool very fast compared to a larger turbo that most high hp cars run, and will be able to make upwards of 550hp. Im telling you its a gem.

 

My neighbor is selling a t04e from a drag 3 kit for 3 bills with about 2k miles on it. I think I might just pick it up.

 

I think three of the main issues are that its 1.6L, 8:1 CR, and has the JG intake. You just won't find good power down low, you're basicly set up for high boost and high rpm. You also want a 5500rpm powerband ...its hard enough to get a 4k powerband.

THe other issue is that you usually don't need over 400whp on the street; rather 300whp is where you start getting big traction issues. A GT2871R should be good, but the GT30R typically has a very good spool with a very large powerband. It's also good for relatively high boost, so you can still kinda spool early, but really crank it for 3rd & above.

To give you an idea, one of the recent LeMans winner from Audi used a modified GT30 (RT30 actually). Those turbos are also meant to reach incredible boost and only have to last as long as a skinny blonde virgin in Compton.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Boostage &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Tony I know the technology of the Gt30R is better than the sc61, but I just cant shake the feeling that I would still not be happy with the response of it. I been doing some research on DSM turbos. and they all seem to be so small but support massive hp. and able to sustain 22psi+ boost levels for long periods of time. but anyway, wouldnt a t04e .60 trim offer significantly more 3fd gear pull than a 28rs?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Our Honda motors do have their disdvantages... The DSM guys are mid-RPM motors, max redline usually around 7000-7500RPM... It's actually not too hard to have a responsive turbo for a narrow RPM range especially if the engine has more stroke, geared for low-end torque and has cams, heads, etc.. that are spec'd to get the turbo spooling right away. We can make godly amounts of power per displacement for our motors, but we need to rev; kinda hard to get the best of everything

A T04E 60 trim is not a good option; I have been inside and driven quite a few 60-trim T04E turbo hondas, from good 'ol B16, LS/VTEC's or ITR motors, I would rather have the SC61 then the T04e 60-trim. The SC61 more laggy, but it hits hard and keeps on going every gear. The T04E would be a mediocre replacement, and IMO, it's not that much better than an SC61 with a smaller turbine housing for low-end response, but hits nothing like an SC61.

The GT3071R with a smaller turbine housing should help fix the laggy-as$ 1st-2nd gear or a 2nd gear roll-on response. You should definitely think about using the divided housing (with the appropriate manifold) because that would definitely help the low-end spool.

If you were just a guy who wanted a fun responsive turbo, I would always suggest GT28RS or a GT2871R; but since you've already been driving an SC61-powered Honda, you are going to hate it if the turbo just falls flat on its face or doesn't quite pull the same up top. I think you are just annoyed with the crazy "sitting there doing nothing" kind of lag when you roll off the lights; The GT3071R is definitely going to start building partial boost once above 2500RPM and get the car moving a lot better.

 

thanks tony, looks like my only option here then, is to either switch a gt30r when I have the funds, or just run open cutout.

 

ive driven and tuned and owned several b16's with sc61's or turbo's very similar and they all have zero problems going anywhere in first and second gears, if anything you have to lift the throttle to prevent wheelspin.

you say you dont build boost till 4k rpm, thats not bad at all considering you can rev the thing to 8k+rpm...you should never be below 4grand when racing anyways? hell even t67's arnt that bad in the lag department. what kind of power is the car making? sounds like there could possibly be something else wrong with the set up. with 8:1 compression its going to be a turd off boost, but a smaller turbo isnt going to help that part of it.

the main reason im saying it seems like another issue is that turbo lag isnt usually that noticeable in the low gears due to the short gearing, its 3rd and 4th gear where you start to feel the lag...ever driven a car that falls out of boost between shifts? that sucks.

i think the 30r will make you much happier, and the ball bearing will make boost response between shifts much better as well. i installed and tuned a GT30r on a stock internal stock cam B16 a couple months ago that made 310whp @ 9psi and it was a blast to drive. gt30r is an awesome street turbo.


good response up there by tony the tiger, that should help you out a lot

 

Raise up your compression ratio to 9:1 and tune it good, i bet with you that you will get alot better respopnse from your SC61.

 

Boostage its time to start using the N20 .

 

Is money not an option?

I've been doing a lot of research and planning for when I boost my b18C1. I'm 30 and have built nothing but turbo cars since I was 18 (DSMs, Miatas, Supras, MR2's, etc).

If you're a finicky turbo guy, you're not going to stick with one turbo for the car's lifetime. This makes money a huge option.

My MR2 has a GT28RS... recently I pulled it to stud and double nut the downpipe and even though I wrapped the oil feed ends, something got in there and the turbo got starved. The turbo was $1,000 new (and that was a deal.. usually about $1,150).

YOU CANNOT REBUILD GARRETT GT-SERIES BALL BEARING TURBOCHARGERS.

You can replace the CHRA, and that runs about $750 for everything GT28RS and bigger.

Add to that, if you want to go to a larger frame GT series later on, your charge and downpiping has to be changed unless you start with something like a GT30+.

For these reasons, I'll always go Garrett hybrid thrust bearing turbo. You can start off with a 46 trim/.54 and go all the way up to a 60 trim/1.04 (numbers not dead on) without having to change manifolds, charge, or downpiping.

Also, if you shop around, you can rebuild a hybrid turbo for about $200 if your wheels are good. Add to that the price for a hybrid is about $550-$650... .half that of a GT series.

Hope that helps. When I switch motors on my MR2, i'll be ditching the GT28RS in favor of a 46 trim/.63 hybrid.. they spool about 200-300rpm later, but are good for the same top end - 350-400whp.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Turbo-charged &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what engine managment do you have? you can take care of the vtec problem easily. the lower gears you dont notice much differnce with the ls vs b16/gsr, its 3rd and 4th gears that feel like turds with the ls trans.

i think a gt30r would be the answer to the question here. honestly, with an sc61 on the car........ its either spinning or driver error thats causing the car to not move anywhere in first and 2nd gear........its surely isnt a "lag" problem.</TD></TR></TABLE>

+1

With the LS transmission you really need to make 350+whp / 240+ft-lbs, my opinion from driving LS geared cars, for third and fourth gear to be fun. My suggestion is a GT2871R or a GT307XR

Also. Boostage. Am I reading wrong. You're only building 1lb in first gear? I would do a boost leak check

 

close ratio gears = who cares about turbo lag, DOWNSHIFT

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 0x64 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">+1

With the LS transmission you really need to make 350+whp / 240+ft-lbs, my opinion from driving LS geared cars, for third and fourth gear to be fun. My suggestion is a GT2871R or a GT307XR

Also. Boostage. Am I reading wrong. You're only building 1lb in first gear? I would do a boost leak check</TD></TR></TABLE>

No I can build 10psi in first. I was saying it takes till over 4 grand before I see 1 lb.

 

I just went from a Sc-61 to a GT-30R....its like night and day....best thing ive ever bought.

 

gt45!! lol thats what i want

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boostd92 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Add to that, if you want to go to a larger frame GT series later on, your charge and downpiping has to be changed unless you start with something like a GT30+.</TD></TR></TABLE>

ATP has really solved that . Good points though.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by a1320addict &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

ATP has really solved that . Good points though.</TD></TR></TABLE>
atp rocks

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JAY &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I just went from a Sc-61 to a GT-30R....its like night and day....best thing ive ever bought.</TD></TR></TABLE>explain.

 

I think im going with a gt2871r or a gt3076r

 

Listen to what tony says!

The GT28R will not pull in the med-hi rev range and it'll just **** you off, you'll be like "man I wish I kept my old turbo."

The GT30R with a 0.63AR exhaust housing is your best bet. It has great spool up and still pulls strong up top. I"ve done the math and plotted the maps on the GT30R and it is definitely right where you want to be.


ATP sells a drop in replacement turbo that is T3 flanged even for the GT25.......

ps...I had a t3/t4 57 trim .60/63AR and switched to a .48AR exhaust just for a more fun daily drive. I lost 40whp in the top end but the spool and lower end tourqe increased dramatically!!

 

TD06SH-25G $1500 is way too much loot for a non-BB turbine.


The T67-25G is what you would need if using a mitsubishi turbo since I know of a couple SR guys who are revving to 9k+ with the help of upgraded valvetrain and 288*+ cams. Moving from an SC61 to a TD06-25G would be a downgrade in peformance. Yes, it will spool quick and provide lots of midrange but it will fall on it's face before your more gets anywhere near it's sweetspot.

The 25G's also use the oddball triangle flange inlet on the hotside. Here is a used TD05SH-25G on Yahoo japan that will probably sell for $700~$800. Look at the inlet flange.


If you are seeking maixmum highend power you could always get a TD07-25G.

BUT purchasing a GT3067r would be a more cost effective and performance providing choice.

 

Go with the GT2871R

 

Id got with the 30R or even a tdo6/20g. The 20g is very popular, if you are looking to save some bucks there is a the tdo5/20g, which is basically the evo IX turbo with a 20g housing on there, you will see a little less top end but better spool characteristics on such a small motor

I think you are asking for too much though, power at 3k with a 1.6L motor AND a ton of top end at 9500rpm? There is only so much one turbo can do, I think asking for power from 3-9.5k is asking too much

 

^^ Agreed. If you can squeak 4500rpm of power that's amazing. Most large frame turbos only have 3500-4000rpm of power (like 6k-10k), and for people with stock valvetrain, 3k of power is good.

 

You will have worst problems with a smaller turbo making the same power. Boost is gonna come quicker causing the car to spin even more. I would buy a staged boost controler and try that. Or get some stickier tires/better suspension.


Adriano