MalcolmV8

Hey Guys,

So my turbo'd D16Y8 on 10 lbs of boost really woke the car up. What a fun and peppy daily driver. Really enjoying the car for tooling around and going to work etc.
I'm thinking of upping the kick though and instead of building up my D motor with all forged internals etc. I'm thinking why not just get a B motor in there and do that instead.

I've seen swapped cars on here but never really got the jist of what's involved. Is it a complete hack or do they mostly bolt in? I'd like to keep the car pretty functional, power steering etc. A/C is an absolute must and necessary evil where I live.

What about wiring etc? I'm assuming a whole new wiring harness? My P72 with hondata in it probably has to go too right?

I'll be building up this motor on the side over winter or something. I hear the ls vtec is the best route to go.

Thanks for any info and or tips from guys who've made the swap.
Malcolm

BoostedEgHatchFl

iTrader: (2)

It would almost be a 100% bolt up plug and play swap. The ecu and hondata can stay. All you have to do is make a new map. For all the money u would have wrapped up in the swap you could make your y8 fast. I have a fully built B16 turbo. But Ive been thinking about going back to a Z6 motor

MalcolmV8

Wow harness and ECU stay? That's sweet, and the motor bolts in. Not bad.

I was thinking of building the D16 as in rods and pistons (not sure if I need to change out crank or not?) but everyone I talk to says I'm wasting my money and that the D16s are just full of issues. Basically chasing one weak link after the next, head lift issues, breaking transmissions etc.

I want to up the boost (nothing crazy) and make it quicker but still somewhat reliable. So that's where I'm coming from wanting to do the B swap. It seems the B motor will make, lets say, 300 whp fairly reliably where as the D will be fighting issues all the way.

I've actually lifted the head on it now with only 10 lbs of boost (stock head bolts). So I'm pulling the head to fix and head stud. I'm on the fence about pulling the whole motor and doing rods and pistons too. I know the block needs machining for the aftermarket rods.

BoostedEgHatchFl

iTrader: (2)

My dad had a vitara motor and it was making 340 on 18 psi. Never had one issue and drove it alot. Yea the trannys r weak. But if you dont launch the **** out of it you will be fine.

MalcolmV8

Oh nice man. I called go-auto-works and he said some forged pistons, rods, and bearings would be $1000. Not to bad for a built bottom end. The vitaras were cheaper but that drops you to 8.5:1 CR or there about and I hate that. I've rebuilt my mustang's V8 enough times to know I don't like low CR. Kills throttle responds and gas mileage and just makes your power adder work harder. I'd rather go higher CR and less boost.

I already had my transmission rebuilt by syncrotech or something like that. I forget the name, big company on these forums. Another reason I want to keep my D. He built it with all carbon fiber syncros and put in a locker. M Factory I think he said was the brand.

I'll just have to not bang gears to hard. That's hard for me cause I drive my cars like I stole them lol. Will just have to bear in mind not to slam gears to hard once I have that sort of power.

hon2984

not very complicated at all.

parts:
b series shift linkage
b series trans & cv axles
b series engine
b16 t bracket ( rear motor mount bracket )
conversion mounts or b16 drivers side mount and post bracket (the bracket that connects to the block)


If you use a obd1 engine you will need to use a obd2 alternator and distributor, as well as a 3 wire to 2 wire IACV conversion. also injector connectors would need to be changed.

wmac

with all the hassle you went through for your setup, i would just build another d-series block.

MalcolmV8

That doesn't sound bad at all. I guess my immediate next question is what B motor do I choose? I've read the wiki page on them and it's mind boggling how many variations of the motor there are. A local performance shop I was talking to said ls vtec is what I want but he couldn't be more specific than that. He was trying to sell me a motor he already had there though so I took that advice with a grain of salt.

MalcolmV8

Yeah I know. I put a lot of work into it and it runs really well so I'm very happy with it. Makes me think just pull the block, forge it and put it back and enjoy for now. The B motor I think will eventually creep into the picture in the future so I figured might as well start collecting parts and building it on the side and then next summer or so make a swap.

Aesthetic Gains

iTrader: (1)

Do a B series swap.
If you can find a full GSR swap then I would go with that. A stock B18C1 with ARP head studs and a decent turbo kit will make 350whp all day long with no issues. If you want more power then you need to start upgrading stuff.

If you want to build something, get a blown B18C1 for cheap and build that.
Bore it out to 81.5 mm, throw some forged internals, good valve train, all of the supporting mods and you have a motor capable of 600whp with the right fuel. If you're staying with 93 octane, then I would shoot for around 500whp.

As someone said above, the swap is very easy to do.

MalcolmV8

350 whp would be a blast in this little civic. That's more or less the hp area I'm shooting for to keep a compromise between hp and reliability. Even just 300 whp should be pretty fun for a while.

It sounds like if I forge the bottom end of my D motor I can do 300 whp but run the risk of blowing up the transmission. I won't be using sticky tires or launching at the track. This is just a street toy for me. Decisions decisions...

BTW we only have a max of 91 octane gas here in KC so I run water/meth injection on the Cobra and I'm sold on it. Fantastic stuff. Like having your pump gas turned into race fuel. I'll probably do the same to the civic down the line. It actually bumps the octane so much I may consider running 87 pump gas and w/m.

BoostedEgHatchFl

iTrader: (2)

I would say not to worry about your d series tranny till 375+ whp. If the trannys the issue get the Speedfactory d to b tranny conversion and just run a b seried tranny. You will break an axle before you mess the tranny up

MalcolmV8

Sweet

MalcolmV8

I checked with speedfactory and you have to have a z6 block to use their conversion kit. The Y8 I have does not work.

Actually this is starting to ring a bell here, I think I've read that the Y8s have oiling issues and I should switch to a Z6 crank. Does that sound familiar? I wonder what all that involves.

wmac

z6 cranks have chamfered oil galleys, and twice as many as the y8/y7 cranks (2 in each journal).
porting the oil pump also helps the y8's oiling issues
i swapped in a z6 in my 97 coupe.

BoostedEgHatchFl

iTrader: (2)

Ive also heard that the Z6 is the best as far as oiling goes.

MalcolmV8

Thanks man. So I should add a new crank to the budget too then. Do I have to change balancers or anything like that or just a straight swap when having the block machined?

wmac

straight swap.
getting hard to find them in decent condition.

porting your oil pump is recommended.

boostedhatch69

more displacement= more torque

MalcolmV8

Nothing a machine shop can't fix on the crank right? What exactly is involved in porting the oil pump? I've never heard of that.

Spcmiller

Well from a ls/Vtec point of view my 95 civic with a gsr head and a b20 bottom end on 12psi went 12.2 on slicks with a 4 year old tune. Now I know you don't race but just saying for a around town toy and ls/Vtec ain't no joke.

MalcolmV8

Oh I know. That's actually very fast. What was your mph?
I see the good in both sides. ls/vtec very fast on stock internals with lower boost as you pointed out.
On the other hand my car is already turbo'd and running like a champ. If I just build the block with a z6 crank, rods and pistons, head stud it and probably do a valve job while the head is off it's probably capable of a reliable 300 whp which will also be a peppy fun toy that's mostly built already.

Spcmiller

Believe my mhp was 119 (don't know where my slip is) you face a difficult decision. But honestly I don't think you can go wrong either way. They are both great platforms.

effin

iTrader: (1)

i had a stock jdm d15b (z6 equivalent) in my hatch long ago on 12 psi, making around 260 that was fun until went with a ls with nippon b16 pistons 11.1 compression on e85 made around the same power on half the boost lol and so much more torque, as of now i have the same bottom end with a b16 head. Honestly B-series in my mind is a beast platform, i will never go back. my .02 Also a little sidenote not telling you to go this route but ever since ive been boosted setups with 11.1 plus compression setups holy crap it makes a world of difference driving around town, the response of the car is amazing, i will never do a 9.1 setup . ever...................ok im done!!!

92redhatch

Go b series and never look back.