That was kinda the point of this thread... to see what's going on, and to also see if anyone else has had similar issues. There are a fair number of smart honda people on here.

 

Sorry Guys, it's me that's the moron, I don't know about the different Honda variants, so what I said is a GENERIC rule, about 18 inches from the turbo outlet, or as close to the cat if 18 inches is a problem.
As for the ACTUAL requirements of the L1H1 sensor, the gas temperature past the sensor should NOT be hotter than 750 dC, that's the requirement, not any specific length from anything, but often things are a compromise. But remember if your gas temp is over 750 dC then the L1H1 starts to get inaccurate. If you're worried, then get a thermocouple in there and measure the temps.
Also, if you're adding a bung then you have to mount the sensor so the wires are pointing up, otherwise condensation and sensor failure are a real danger - yes, it happens if you don't mount the sensor correctly.

Peter.

 

whats DC??

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Peter &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">As for the ACTUAL requirements of the L1H1 sensor, the gas temperature past the sensor should NOT be hotter than 750 dC, that's the requirement, Peter.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Peter your advice is sound with respect to placement, and the 750 degree C maximum exhaust temperature is reasonable advice.......... but that is not the number under Maximum Operating Temperature, Exhaust Gas on my copy of the NTK specifications. Check page 1 bottom left of the page of the NTK UEGO Specification for the exact number so you can quote it. Your advice is reasonable, but not the requirement.........................

Regards,
BigMoose

 

i thank peter for coming on the board to clarify some issues that we all might have with the techedge since it is highly recommended on these boards.

As for our unit, it looks like we may have spliced the cable incorrectly and according to peter we should of just spliced into the com plug instead. I'm glad he's replacing the cable in my error and am very pleased with the level of service he has provided me. Remember guys, he's on here to help not argue..i'm sure there are tons of other non-honda sites that would LOVE to get the same information that we are getting here in regards to the NTK sensor (thanks bigmoose) and the Techedge unit (thanks peter).

techedge

 

thanks peter..
as for goldberg..
guess means nothing

 

One basic difference between a pump cell sensor and a conventional sensor is that the operating temp is controlled to some extent. One rule not mentioned on my "data sheet" (and I use the term losely, NTK sell there own interface box, and are therefore not as helpful as would otherwise be the case) is that the sensor should operate at a higher temp than the sensed gas temperature for best accuarcy. So, I take the 950 dC (that's degree Centigrade) on a data sheet I have as an absolute maximum gas temp, and the 750 dC I quote as a realistic gas temperature to aim for, with perhaps 850 dC as a maximum operating temp to aim for.
Just for interest's sake, I should mention that our next version will have at least one thermocouple input - mostly for checking EGTs as a further aid in tuning.

 

would that be celcius???

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GOLDBERG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">would that be celcius??? </TD></TR></TABLE>

last time i checked centigrade and celcius where the same scale... hmmm

 

Right on the money Peter! Thanks for the clarification. The addition of a type K thermocouple channel looks great too!

Are you guys going to read the nernst cell resistance for the LSU4 controller and servo around that? Are you modifing control parameters between the 0 258 006 066 and the 0 258 007 0xx sensors?

Regards,
BigMoose

 

&gt; Are you guys going to read the nernst cell resistance

That's what we're doing. Bosch have a chip that does this, but we didn't like it for a number of reasons, and we "rolling our own" solution (it seems AEM decided to go with the Bosch chip in their new offering).

&gt; Are you modifing control parameters between the 0 258 006 066 and the 0 258 007 0xx sensors

We would have liked to have just the one sensor to work with, but we've been forced (by market pressures and the current low price of the 007 057/058) to support both. This means we'll have a better product in the end, but it means our May delivery date may slip a bit (early June?). OTOH, our new model will be field re-flashable, so getting support for exerything first up isn't so much a priority.

BTW, I have some non-computer tasks today, so in case you think I'm ignoring questions, I may not be able to answer any for a little bit, but "I'll be back".
Peter.

 

Thanks for all the info Peter!

Blaze

 

This is great info, I'm glad Peter is on Board...

I have the complete kit (Sensor, module, and display) but I used the Hondata logger (connect the 9-pin Vout through the stock sensor plug).

I mounted my sensor in the sock location, just downstream of the oil pan under the car. Kind of a pain to take in and out, but its a good spot.

I checked the accuracy at the dyno, it was within 0.2 of their exhaust gas analyzer from 11.5 to 18.0.

 

(kinda ot, but this is the only place i see peter)

anyways, i was wondering if the datalogging software v1.55 was compatible with the old te-wb v1.0?... also, all that is needed to datalog (either v1.0 or v1.55) is a null modem connector and palm with software correct?... and with the null modem connector, what is the wiring for it?... i read (on honda-tech) that it just switches the #2 and #3 pin, is this correct?... i searched your website but could not find the info i was looking for... thank you for your time...

to a great product and customer service/support

 

Man, that really sucks! Blowing up someone else's engine is probably one of my biggest fears.

Did you not notice that 12:1 smells very good out the exhaust while 14.4:1 doesn't? That's one way to tell when you really have nothing else to go by.

Best of luck getting everything back on track!

 

We had intended to have a standalone data logger to "update" version 1.0 to work with the Palm software (from Jonathon Burchmore) - we haven't quite reached that point and I suspect there's some demand, but not that much - but you may still see our standalone logger some time soon.
Version 1.0 of course doesn't have any data collection capability so the 1.0 software logs the output of the 5301 display (ie. just AFR) at 5 samples/sec. It's difficult to use as there's no RPM (or other) datum as there is with version 1.5.

Most people who have problems connecting a Palm to version 1.5 try to connect with a standard Palm RS232 cable. Unfortunately the DB9 connector on the WB unit has other signals as well as the RS232, so we recommend that people build their own cable - With version 2.0 we'll be offering a couple of prebuilt cables for PC and Palm, so this shouldn't be the problem it currently seems to be.

For more info on wiring, see this (end of page for the PDA cable that swaps 2 & 3)

http://techedge.com.au/vehicle/wbo2/1v5/wiring.htm

Peter.

 

Replying to myself (because I don't have the messaging feature turned on) :

There are newer Bosch chips CJ120 and CJ125 that have Ri measurement capability.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Agtronic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Man, that really sucks! Blowing up someone else's engine is probably one of my biggest fears.

Did you not notice that 12:1 smells very good out the exhaust while 14.4:1 doesn't? That's one way to tell when you really have nothing else to go by.

Best of luck getting everything back on track! </TD></TR></TABLE>

That is good to remember... but unfortunately, I have a horrible sense of smell... I can usually only tell if it is REALLY rich... other than that, I can't smell a thing.

Peter: how can I ensure that my ecu is getting the same signal that the display is getting? I was thinking: when you unplug the o2 from the unit, it supposed to put out 2.5v (14.7:1 on the display), correct? So... if I unplug the sensor from the unit and ensure the laptop is reading 2.5v... I should be a-ok, right?

 

dang u guys allgot the bung wayy down under the car..i donthave that what about placing the sensor 8-10 inches from exhaust outlet on turbo??? where MY stock 2ndary sensor is located?(98 dx hatch)

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Peter &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">We had intended to have a standalone data logger to "update" version 1.0 to work with the Palm software (from Jonathon Burchmore) - we haven't quite reached that point and I suspect there's some demand, but not that much - but you may still see our standalone logger some time soon.
Version 1.0 of course doesn't have any data collection capability so the 1.0 software logs the output of the 5301 display (ie. just AFR) at 5 samples/sec. It's difficult to use as there's no RPM (or other) datum as there is with version 1.5.

Most people who have problems connecting a Palm to version 1.5 try to connect with a standard Palm RS232 cable. Unfortunately the DB9 connector on the WB unit has other signals as well as the RS232, so we recommend that people build their own cable - With version 2.0 we'll be offering a couple of prebuilt cables for PC and Palm, so this shouldn't be the problem it currently seems to be.

For more info on wiring, see this (end of page for the PDA cable that swaps 2 & 3)

http://techedge.com.au/vehicle/wbo2/1v5/wiring.htm

Peter.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Peter,
back to an earlier question I had about the calibration of the 1.0 unit. I thought there wasn't a way to do this plus I thought the Rcal in the sensor took care of this. Please let me know if I am wrong and if there is a way to calibrate it.

Also, what happens when there isn't a 13.2 volt source to the 1.0 version? Does the unit just not turn on or work?

Also, I would be interested to hear how far off (if at all) the display is from the lambda value in Hondata. Mine seems to be about .3-.4 off. What some other Hondata users getting? Gruvytune, how close is yours?

Thanks.

 

yes... there should be no diffference, right?

What maps are you techedge-hondata tuners using for voltage-&gt;afr mappings... the one directly off the techedge web page or a modified one?

 

&gt; back to an earlier question I had about the calibration of the 1.0 unit. I thought there wasn't a way to do ...

There's nothing magical about Rcal - if you want to work out how to physically replace rCal on 1.0 with your own variable resistor, then you can get a free-air adjustment closer to 4.0 Volts. rCal simply adjusts the gain of the output stage to compensate against sensors that have different sensitivities. We just don't provide an easy means to do this on 1.0 - it's DIY if you want to do it ;-).

&gt; Also, what happens when there isn't a 13.2 volt source to the 1.0 version?

One of the main reasons we came out with version 1.5 was because 1.0 had such a high operating voltage that many people found it difficult for their installation to work reliably unless they were very careful about where they wired power and ground. With 1.5 we reduced the minimum operating voltage to about 11 volts, and we provided reverse battery protection. When the battery voltage drops too low the WB unit produces a stoich voltage (2.5 Volts) and the red LED goes out.

&gt; Also, I would be interested to hear how far off (if at all) the display is from the lambda value in Hondata

With 1.0 we had a fairly high output impedance which meant some of the AFR voltage was "lost" when connected to devices that had low input impedances. We fixed this to some extent in 1.5 (lower output impedance), and with 2.0 we'll reduce the difference even more. But, to answer the question about using a different table for specific logging devices (like HonData), I have been thinking I could come up with a very simple spreadsheet that creates a custom AFR table. Any interest in this?
Also, if someone wants to give me some specific data, I can have a page devoted to Hondata tuning.

 

I am very much interested in such a spreadsheet (hondata-specific AFR table), and I can guarantee that many other people would appreciate it as well. Such a page would be awesome.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by servion &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I am very much interested in such a spreadsheet (hondata-specific AFR table), and I can guarantee that many other people would appreciate it as well. Such a page would be awesome.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I agree.

 

Try this out - it produces a graph for you to read off the values you need.

http://techedge.com.au/vehicle/wbo2/voutnew.xls

I don't have a page to explain it yet, but if you understand why you need this information, then you should know how to use it - I will try and get a page up ... You MUST know the input impedance of the device you're connecting the WB unit to in order to use the spreadsheet correctly.