is a t25 a good choice
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From: vtecland, qc, canada
is a t25 a good choice
im planning to build a homemade turbo setup and im planning to boost between 5 and 8 psi and i need something that spools fast .im gona use a good intercooler.is a t25 a good choice 
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From: ga, usa
Re: is a t25 a good choice (redbull)
on a d16z6 the t25 runs out of air up top, unless you up the boost to 10+ psi, then it holds.
so apply this same principle to any b-series, except your probably going to run out of air on any b-series up top.
for some lowend torque and really no topend then the t25 is your turbo. if you want topend for a HMT kit then go with a 14b, can be had for the same price.
and if your worrying about spoolup, the 14b on a z6 spools up around 3k to 3.3k
checkout turbod16.com and homemadeturbo.com as well as Honda-Tech
so apply this same principle to any b-series, except your probably going to run out of air on any b-series up top.
for some lowend torque and really no topend then the t25 is your turbo. if you want topend for a HMT kit then go with a 14b, can be had for the same price.
and if your worrying about spoolup, the 14b on a z6 spools up around 3k to 3.3k
checkout turbod16.com and homemadeturbo.com as well as Honda-Tech
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From: Sicklerville, NJ, usa
Re: is a t25 a good choice (bisket)
how would a t25 run out of air on a 1.6? i know the engines rev high but they have such small displacement that it would cancel out. im from the nissan world and the ca18det is a 1.8liter t25 (small t25) and revs to 9k. theres a guy running 8psi with a t25 on a 2.4l ka in a 240sx. i think the t25 will be perfect for a street setup for 5-8psi on your motor
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From: ga, usa
Re: is a t25 a good choice (Structure240sx)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Structure240sx »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">how would a t25 run out of air on a 1.6? i know the engines rev high but they have such small displacement that it would cancel out. im from the nissan world and the ca18det is a 1.8liter t25 (small t25) and revs to 9k. theres a guy running 8psi with a t25 on a 2.4l ka in a 240sx. i think the t25 will be perfect for a street setup for 5-8psi on your motor</TD></TR></TABLE>
happens all the time with t25's and 1.6lt honda engines, go talk to the people on homemadeturbo.com
happens all the time with t25's and 1.6lt honda engines, go talk to the people on homemadeturbo.com
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From: stayton, or, usa
Re: (jspexae102)
i believe that the T25 is an excellent candidate for your engine...
a t3 would just be overkill....you will not reach its full potentianl or not even half of it.
get a t25 its a quick spooler, i use to have it but it didnt like 23psi boost spike
Its max PSI is around 17psi...
good luck
a t3 would just be overkill....you will not reach its full potentianl or not even half of it.
get a t25 its a quick spooler, i use to have it but it didnt like 23psi boost spike
Its max PSI is around 17psi...
good luck
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From: McKinney, TX, USA
Re: is a t25 a good choice (redbull)
sorry to jack the thread..but i got a turbo kit for ya.
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=769429
,
Khoi
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=769429
,Khoi
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From: Okie in training, usa
Re: is a t25 a good choice (bisket)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bisket »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">on a d16z6 the t25 runs out of air up top, unless you up the boost to 10+ psi, then it holds.</TD></TR></TABLE>
IMO, T25's don't get a fair shake. I've heard a lot of complaints about T25's "falling off" at 5000-5500 rpm's. I'm not saying these people are lying, just pointing their finger at the turbo rather than at the real problem.
The manifold is the culprit.
Think about it. The mitsu T25 doesn't fit any of the turbo manifolds on the market, so every single T25 powered honda is likely utilizing a pathetic Civic HF/STD manifold, along with some crappy ebay adapter plate. That's just not giving the turbo a fair shake. I also went with a STD manifold (larger than an HF), but here's why mine actually "kicks hard" when vtec hits at 5200 revs. First I spent about an hour porting my STD manifold, then I built my own adapter plate and actually spent a few hours port matching it to the Manifold, and the turbo exhaust housing. The exit of the STD manifold is waaayyy different shaped than the exhaust housing on a T25, so this involved removing A LOT of material. There is also a large "lip" about an inch inside the T25 exhaust housing that serves no purpose, so I did some porting there as well. What I ended up with was a much better manifold setup than the "average" T25 sees on a Honda (not hard to do).
IMO, T25's don't get a fair shake. I've heard a lot of complaints about T25's "falling off" at 5000-5500 rpm's. I'm not saying these people are lying, just pointing their finger at the turbo rather than at the real problem.
The manifold is the culprit.
Think about it. The mitsu T25 doesn't fit any of the turbo manifolds on the market, so every single T25 powered honda is likely utilizing a pathetic Civic HF/STD manifold, along with some crappy ebay adapter plate. That's just not giving the turbo a fair shake. I also went with a STD manifold (larger than an HF), but here's why mine actually "kicks hard" when vtec hits at 5200 revs. First I spent about an hour porting my STD manifold, then I built my own adapter plate and actually spent a few hours port matching it to the Manifold, and the turbo exhaust housing. The exit of the STD manifold is waaayyy different shaped than the exhaust housing on a T25, so this involved removing A LOT of material. There is also a large "lip" about an inch inside the T25 exhaust housing that serves no purpose, so I did some porting there as well. What I ended up with was a much better manifold setup than the "average" T25 sees on a Honda (not hard to do).
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From: Bradenton, FL, US of A
Re: is a t25 a good choice (fsp31)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fsp31 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
IMO, T25's don't get a fair shake. I've heard a lot of complaints about T25's "falling off" at 5000-5500 rpm's. I'm not saying these people are lying, just pointing their finger at the turbo rather than at the real problem.
The manifold is the culprit.
Think about it. The mitsu T25 doesn't fit any of the turbo manifolds on the market, so every single T25 powered honda is likely utilizing a pathetic Civic HF/STD manifold, along with some crappy ebay adapter plate. That's just not giving the turbo a fair shake. I also went with a STD manifold (larger than an HF), but here's why mine actually "kicks hard" when vtec hits at 5200 revs. First I spent about an hour porting my STD manifold, then I built my own adapter plate and actually spent a few hours port matching it to the Manifold, and the turbo exhaust housing. The exit of the STD manifold is waaayyy different shaped than the exhaust housing on a T25, so this involved removing A LOT of material. There is also a large "lip" about an inch inside the T25 exhaust housing that serves no purpose, so I did some porting there as well. What I ended up with was a much better manifold setup than the "average" T25 sees on a Honda (not hard to do). </TD></TR></TABLE>
You are correct sir. The only other problem the t25 can run into above 5000 rpm is the charge temp starts climbing fast near that point. So people "feel" a power drop when actually its just pushing hotter air and the ECU is correcting for it. So its like a double-whammy.
A manifold designed for high flow and a good intercooler will reduce this effect. Also, I would recommend a good boost controller, the stock DSM wastegate is normally ECU controlled and in just mechnical form it is very sloppy.
Randy
IMO, T25's don't get a fair shake. I've heard a lot of complaints about T25's "falling off" at 5000-5500 rpm's. I'm not saying these people are lying, just pointing their finger at the turbo rather than at the real problem.
The manifold is the culprit.
Think about it. The mitsu T25 doesn't fit any of the turbo manifolds on the market, so every single T25 powered honda is likely utilizing a pathetic Civic HF/STD manifold, along with some crappy ebay adapter plate. That's just not giving the turbo a fair shake. I also went with a STD manifold (larger than an HF), but here's why mine actually "kicks hard" when vtec hits at 5200 revs. First I spent about an hour porting my STD manifold, then I built my own adapter plate and actually spent a few hours port matching it to the Manifold, and the turbo exhaust housing. The exit of the STD manifold is waaayyy different shaped than the exhaust housing on a T25, so this involved removing A LOT of material. There is also a large "lip" about an inch inside the T25 exhaust housing that serves no purpose, so I did some porting there as well. What I ended up with was a much better manifold setup than the "average" T25 sees on a Honda (not hard to do). </TD></TR></TABLE>
You are correct sir. The only other problem the t25 can run into above 5000 rpm is the charge temp starts climbing fast near that point. So people "feel" a power drop when actually its just pushing hotter air and the ECU is correcting for it. So its like a double-whammy.
A manifold designed for high flow and a good intercooler will reduce this effect. Also, I would recommend a good boost controller, the stock DSM wastegate is normally ECU controlled and in just mechnical form it is very sloppy.
Randy
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From: madison, wisconsin, us
Re: is a t25 a good choice (RGAZ)
I use the 14B turbo in my 1.8L GSR motor and it starts to boost at around 2400rpm and kicks strong till redline at 12psi (stock wastegate set at 12psi). When doing RESEARCH on this turbo on a honda motor the thing to do was to get an EGT because of the smaller turbo taking on bigger loads and the heat issues. IMO T25 is good turbo but 14B is better. Both are easy to find and are fairly cheap. Go with the 14B, it'll work just fine for you. But don't expect anything amazing from it. It's a good starter turbo for a home made kit. But that it.
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From: Okie in training, usa
Re: is a t25 a good choice (RGAZ)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RGAZ »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
You are correct sir. The only other problem the t25 can run into above 5000 rpm is the charge temp starts climbing fast near that point. So people "feel" a power drop when actually its just pushing hotter air and the ECU is correcting for it. So its like a double-whammy.
A manifold designed for high flow and a good intercooler will reduce this effect. Also, I would recommend a good boost controller, the stock DSM wastegate is normally ECU controlled and in just mechnical form it is very sloppy.
Randy</TD></TR></TABLE>
Good point. I guess I should add that I also have a decent FMIC. Even on 100 degree days, I have yet to see charge temps go beyond 120 degrees (remote sensor thermometer). But even at the turbo exit, the old "touch test" (grab the intercooler pipe leading off the turbo) reveals that charge temps aren't very high there either. I'm only running 7 - 9 psi though. And, yep, the 7 - 9 psi thing is because the WG actuator is on the sloppy side. It is consistent though, so I haven't been bothered by the 2 psi spikes I see occasionally. For higher boost, that would definitely become a problem.. I've been thinking about playing with the WG area. Maybe porting it a bit, or going with a separate WG dump would help the actuator settle down some.
If I were running 12 - 15 psi, then I'm sure the charge temps would shoot up substantially. I built this car for autox though, so I was only shooting for about 200-230 whp. According to those cheesy 1/4 mile calculators I'm at about 185 whp right now. another 3 psi should get me to my goal easily.
I thought of another reason some folks have difficulty with Mitsu T25's. They have this really convenient vacuum source right on the compressor housing for the WG actuator. I've seen several set up this way. The problem is, this doesn't take into account frictional losses in the IC piping and the IC itself. The result is a corresponding reduction in boost as revs (and flow) increase. It's a nice safe way to run things if you're not sure about your fuel setup though.
The WG actuator needs to be routed to a point on the intake manifold AFTER the throttle body in order to hold consistent boost levels.
You are correct sir. The only other problem the t25 can run into above 5000 rpm is the charge temp starts climbing fast near that point. So people "feel" a power drop when actually its just pushing hotter air and the ECU is correcting for it. So its like a double-whammy.
A manifold designed for high flow and a good intercooler will reduce this effect. Also, I would recommend a good boost controller, the stock DSM wastegate is normally ECU controlled and in just mechnical form it is very sloppy.
Randy</TD></TR></TABLE>
Good point. I guess I should add that I also have a decent FMIC. Even on 100 degree days, I have yet to see charge temps go beyond 120 degrees (remote sensor thermometer). But even at the turbo exit, the old "touch test" (grab the intercooler pipe leading off the turbo) reveals that charge temps aren't very high there either. I'm only running 7 - 9 psi though. And, yep, the 7 - 9 psi thing is because the WG actuator is on the sloppy side. It is consistent though, so I haven't been bothered by the 2 psi spikes I see occasionally. For higher boost, that would definitely become a problem.. I've been thinking about playing with the WG area. Maybe porting it a bit, or going with a separate WG dump would help the actuator settle down some.
If I were running 12 - 15 psi, then I'm sure the charge temps would shoot up substantially. I built this car for autox though, so I was only shooting for about 200-230 whp. According to those cheesy 1/4 mile calculators I'm at about 185 whp right now. another 3 psi should get me to my goal easily.
I thought of another reason some folks have difficulty with Mitsu T25's. They have this really convenient vacuum source right on the compressor housing for the WG actuator. I've seen several set up this way. The problem is, this doesn't take into account frictional losses in the IC piping and the IC itself. The result is a corresponding reduction in boost as revs (and flow) increase. It's a nice safe way to run things if you're not sure about your fuel setup though.
The WG actuator needs to be routed to a point on the intake manifold AFTER the throttle body in order to hold consistent boost levels.
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From: Whitby, ON, Canada
Re: is a t25 a good choice (redbull)
I am a FIRM believer that the T25 is a good turbo even for a B16.
I'm not 100% convinced that a Mitsu T25 would cut it yet though. Reving to 8-9000rpm.
but a nice Ball Bearing T25..would give you the low end you need, and would keep spooling to redline as well.
but this is not really a "junk yard" set up anymore.
Someone made a good point. The SR20DET has a 2.0L engine with the T25 and revs up high as well. Sure people change out the turbo, but on the 1.6L motors...you can get some good power.
I think what happens is people want to run 7psi. So 7psi no a T25, meh, but 7psi on a T3, you'll get more power.
Case in point, I had a Ford Focus. Made 2 different turbo setups for the thing. one with a 14B, and one with a .63/.60 T3. At 7psi, the 14B had 25whp less. But it spooled a heck of a lot quicker. If I would have upped the boost to 9-10psi, I would have achieved the same power as the T3 but with better spool time.
I'm not 100% convinced that a Mitsu T25 would cut it yet though. Reving to 8-9000rpm.
but a nice Ball Bearing T25..would give you the low end you need, and would keep spooling to redline as well.
but this is not really a "junk yard" set up anymore.
Someone made a good point. The SR20DET has a 2.0L engine with the T25 and revs up high as well. Sure people change out the turbo, but on the 1.6L motors...you can get some good power.
I think what happens is people want to run 7psi. So 7psi no a T25, meh, but 7psi on a T3, you'll get more power.
Case in point, I had a Ford Focus. Made 2 different turbo setups for the thing. one with a 14B, and one with a .63/.60 T3. At 7psi, the 14B had 25whp less. But it spooled a heck of a lot quicker. If I would have upped the boost to 9-10psi, I would have achieved the same power as the T3 but with better spool time.
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From: madison, wisconsin, us
Re: is a t25 a good choice (Jays91DXhatch)
It all depends on what the kids goals are. My setup with the smaller turbo will lose to a bigger turbo setup on the track all day. But for the streets in a second gear drop where you tease the other person with alittle taste of what you have. The 14B is so quick to hit 12psi that i'm gone with the slightest push of the gas. But if I were to keep going with the bigger turbo cars than I would def lose in top end.
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From: Whitby, ON, Canada
Re: is a t25 a good choice (dainteg)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dainteg »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It all depends on what the kids goals are. My setup with the smaller turbo will lose to a bigger turbo setup on the track all day. But for the streets in a second gear drop where you tease the other person with alittle taste of what you have. The 14B is so quick to hit 12psi that i'm gone with the slightest push of the gas. But if I were to keep going with the bigger turbo cars than I would def lose in top end.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I know what you mean, and most of the time, in my case anyways, just this tease is enough. lol
probably 98% of my driving is on the street, so I don't know why I would build my car to be fast at the track on slicks... :D
Just my opinion anyways.
I'd be happy to be slower at the track, but faster in real life mode any day. not to mention on a road course or AutoX.
I know what you mean, and most of the time, in my case anyways, just this tease is enough. lol
probably 98% of my driving is on the street, so I don't know why I would build my car to be fast at the track on slicks... :D
Just my opinion anyways.
I'd be happy to be slower at the track, but faster in real life mode any day. not to mention on a road course or AutoX.
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From: madison, wisconsin, us
Re: is a t25 a good choice (Jays91DXhatch)
The smaller turbos are perfect for AutoX. Slow down going into a corner and blastin out of the corner and hit full boost now problem. What setup are you using again?
My setup HMT Kit, HKS turbo mani with adapter plate, 450cc DSM injectors, 14B DSM turbo, Cusotm 2.5 and 2.25 inch piping, starion I/C, Greddy BOV, and Apexi VAFC II.
My setup HMT Kit, HKS turbo mani with adapter plate, 450cc DSM injectors, 14B DSM turbo, Cusotm 2.5 and 2.25 inch piping, starion I/C, Greddy BOV, and Apexi VAFC II.
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From: Manchester, NH, USA
For your application and boost level, the T-25 is a pefect fit (especially considerig they can be had for one hundred bucks used).
Anyone who says it will run out of steam at higher rpm's on a 1.6l at 7 psi is wrong. It won't.
Anyone who says it will run out of steam at higher rpm's on a 1.6l at 7 psi is wrong. It won't.
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From: Whitby, ON, Canada
I was thinking about my 2 setups that I mentioned above on my old Focus.
I might not have been fair in saying the 25whp difference was the turbo's.
14B setup:
-14B with stock internal wastegate 7PSI
-2 inch downpipe and flex, 2.25inch exhaust
-1G DSM side mount IC
-ghetto different sized IC piping
-190whp/200 ft. lbs torque
T3 (.63/.60) setup:
-T3
-Tial external wastegate at 7PSI dumped to atmosphere
-2.5 inch downpipe/flex and exhaust
-HUGE FMIC
-proper IC piping
-215whp/225ft. lbs torque
So, after thinking about it I'm sure if I substitute the 14B in my second setup, I could have yielded the same results but it would have spooled much quicker.
I hope I'm not off topic too much here. Just trying to show a comparison of a T3 vs. a 14B. All other things the same it might have been a better turbo to go with.
This was a Focus so 2.0L 6750rpm redline.
I might not have been fair in saying the 25whp difference was the turbo's.
14B setup:
-14B with stock internal wastegate 7PSI
-2 inch downpipe and flex, 2.25inch exhaust
-1G DSM side mount IC
-ghetto different sized IC piping
-190whp/200 ft. lbs torque
T3 (.63/.60) setup:
-T3
-Tial external wastegate at 7PSI dumped to atmosphere
-2.5 inch downpipe/flex and exhaust
-HUGE FMIC
-proper IC piping
-215whp/225ft. lbs torque
So, after thinking about it I'm sure if I substitute the 14B in my second setup, I could have yielded the same results but it would have spooled much quicker.
I hope I'm not off topic too much here. Just trying to show a comparison of a T3 vs. a 14B. All other things the same it might have been a better turbo to go with.
This was a Focus so 2.0L 6750rpm redline.
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From: Ankeny, Iowa, u.s.
Re: is a t25 a good choice (_Endless_)
has anyone taken compression into consideration???
the reason that the factory turbo cars dont "outbreathe" the turbo is because of considerably lower compression...regardless of displacement
lower compression means not as much exhuast gas it takes more rpm to get the spool...on the higher compression honda...you are reaching wastegate settings much faster because of more exhuast charge to the turbine....
im just a noob with a little bit of logical thinking...im sure that someone will criticize or back me up
if i am wrong, correct me, but before you do, think about it logically
the reason that the factory turbo cars dont "outbreathe" the turbo is because of considerably lower compression...regardless of displacement
lower compression means not as much exhuast gas it takes more rpm to get the spool...on the higher compression honda...you are reaching wastegate settings much faster because of more exhuast charge to the turbine....
im just a noob with a little bit of logical thinking...im sure that someone will criticize or back me up
if i am wrong, correct me, but before you do, think about it logically
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From: madison, wisconsin, us
Re: is a t25 a good choice (turbofodo)
everything that you said is right, but the fact that it's getting more exsaust it doesn't mean that its nessisaraly getting "outbreathed". Some people say 8psi is 8psi, but in the case of a smaller turbo it doesn't create as much topend as 8psi with a t3t4 turbo.....but your still getting that 8psi with the T25 or 14B.
A good question to answer while we're on the topic of the 14B and T25. I've heard of people using the smaller turbo setups and they get mad boost spikes. Has anybody using the 14B or T25 noticed this on there setup? I use a 14B and I have an Autometer Boost Gauge and I don't notice alot or any boost spikes.
A good question to answer while we're on the topic of the 14B and T25. I've heard of people using the smaller turbo setups and they get mad boost spikes. Has anybody using the 14B or T25 noticed this on there setup? I use a 14B and I have an Autometer Boost Gauge and I don't notice alot or any boost spikes.
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From: McKinney, TX, USA
Re: is a t25 a good choice (dainteg)
most people experiencing spikes with these small turbos are more than likely due to running an internal wastegate with a 3inch downpipe. Its not the turbo that is causing the spiking..its running an internal gate with a large exhaust that is the culprit.
Khoi
Khoi
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From: philly, pa, usa
i guess the 14b stock wastegate is set at 12 psi . is it possible to lower it to say about 6-8 psi ?! someone told me you can thread the actuator or something . can anyone confirm this for me as i am still wondering about this . thanks .