PowerAdder919

I have a freshly sleeved B18C block installed by Z10 Motorsports. Once assembled and installed into the vehicle, on initial warm up and check over, the vehicle started to exhibit over heating issues. We never driven the vehicle and we didn’t let it get to full over heating, to troubleshoot it to the point where we decided that the head needs to come back off. Once off we found that the sleeve had sunk 0.004” in some areas. I believe that the block heat cycled and the sleeves settled and sunk. I gave Z10 a called and inquire into the process more and asked if they have had a problem with sunken sleeves before.
I didn’t catch his name and he didn’t seem shock or surprise, so I asked if they have had complaints of this problem before. They say that blocks do come back for that problem once in a while, so I ask how you would fix it. He told me to take it to machine shop, have them put it in a press and push on the sleeves a little and resurface the block or ship it back to them and they will do the same. I asked “How much pressure is required to make sure that they are fully seated and to overcome the sleeve retaining compound to move it. Also, how much pressure is too much?” He tells me that they have no specifics on that and the press they use has no gauge, so they do it by feel. That turns my stomach already at how low tech that is and a lot of other questions went through my mind that I’m afraid to ask.

The block has been final honed already, would pressing it like that distort the bore?
The sleeve retaining compound is rated at 15,000 psi?
Does the block need to be preheated to soften it up?
Shouldn’t it get some kind of heat cycle treatment afterwards?
If the sleeve’s compound is moved, will it reseal?

I have had problems with their resurfacing equipment in the past; where as their cutting head is small so they do several passes to get fully resurfaced. Theirs leave three to four machining patterns across the block, so I had it redone locally to OEM specs. I don’t want them resurface it, sad to say but I’m afraid for them to even touch it. If they don’t overcome the sleeve compound then the sleeve is not seated, then I’m afraid that once assembled I might have to pull it again.

In the past, I would simply resurface it and roll with it if I knew that it was installed correctly to some kind of quality controls. I want to quality control it myself and I know there’s a lot of other machinist on here that do sleeves. I’m not here to flame Z10, I just want to fix it right, please help me figure out the best options to guarantee a correct and permanent fix. I prefer advice from another professional installer about how they would fix, double check, and prevent this problem from reoccurring in the same block.

sgnlab

pick up the phone and call Mike @ Laskey racing tell him you need a trouble free block!

cockerkid008

Did you get all the air out of the cooling system? An air pocket in the system will give you overheating symptoms.

96 GSR-T

Did you even read part of the guys post? He is not trying to trouble shoot an overheating problem, he is talking about his sleeves, he stated they sunk....

OP I dont know this is a bad situation, I couldnt imagine the sleeve sealer just magically re-sealing itself unless it was some sort of putty that never dries, didnt realize Z10 was so "pre-historic" in their machining methods.

bobby taylor

you might be in for an long road of crap if it is not done right the frist time
is there an stepor an seat for your sleves? if there is you can use an deck
height gage to cheak!if they are seated!
I had an real bad time with an v8 with sleves every time i got in to boast
the sleves would move an blow an head gasket! had to toss that block

batboyvaj

how else can any of us give you advice when you already know your sleeve is sunk. send it back or if you can ask for your money back

rmcdaniels

I had similar issues, but with a different sleeving company. My sleeves weren't in straight and it liked to blow head gaskets. I ended up using one of the Cometic HG's with the thicker sealing ring around the top of the combustion chamber, kind of a stepped gasket. That fixed the problem and it ran fine with 20+ PSI of boost. It's been running for years.

As far as fixing it, any time that someone screws something up I send it back to them to fix or replace. That's the only way that I can hold them accountable.

turbociv910

x2. because when it doesn't work the second time, its the machine shops fault, not z10s

ralph11sec

maybe a copper ring will fix it to seal the gasket to the sleeves? but thats a cheap way of fixing it.

hoya_10fintec

If I were you I wouldn't touch that block any further. I think you already know what to do but you just can't wait to get the thing in.

Be patient.

SD_Lurker

iTrader: (4)

The most important question at this point is "WHO SLEEVED THE BLOCK"? You merely stated that z10 installed a freshly sleeved block, you never stated whom sleeved that block.

JDogg

Z10 installed the sleeves..

the shop i used to work for sold him the block, the shop has sold probably 20 of those blocks with out any issues at all.

most of the time sleeves sink because the block wasnt completely clean when they pressed the sleeve in, so its unlikely that they will sink more. I would send it back to z10 or possibly send it down to RLZ (im not 100% sure they can do it) to have it worked on. And yes i would have the bore checked afterward.

.CUBISH.

i had a ls block done by z10.. sunk on the 3rd dyno pull

CerealKiller

like the first reply to your post,
give Laskey Racing, Golden Eagle Mfg. and/or Darton a call.

0Golden Eagle

what z10 told you is wrong. i would never tell a customer that, i would send a call tag for the block so we can inspect the problem and fix it and if a sleeve sunk it needs to be pulled out and replaced there is a reason it sank and redecking it will not fix the problem most the time it will just do it again or maybe even start mixing coolant.

SD_Lurker

iTrader: (4)

Correct me if I am wrong but doesn't z10 use AEBS sleeves?

rmcdaniels

Yes, that's right.

Turbo-LS

iTrader: (4)

I had a sleeved block that sunk before even got to make dyno pulls. Then they pressed the sleeves down like Z-10 is stating and it happend to me 3 more times and whiped oput the pistons every time the HG poped. My advice to you is let Z-10 handle the block and if you keep having and issue they should be responsible and give you another block with the sleeve job done properly.

this is somethign that happens from time to time and really the best and IMO the only way to rectify the problem is a new block IMO

rmcdaniels

On my last sleeved block the compound that sealed the bottom of the sleeves was not structural and it remained pliable even after years of use. The sleeves are supported by the metal ledge that has been cut into the block when it was machined. Unless there is some problem with the way that the block was machined, I don't see why it wouldn't seat if pressed into the block. I also don't see where pressing it a few thousandths is going to mess up the sealant.

I still say return it to Z10 and let them fix it. You won't have to search much to find where anyone who sleeves blocks has had issues with sleeves, it's something that happens sometimes. It doesn't make sense to me to let anyone else fix it. If I was going to do that, then I'd just have another block sleeved by someone different.

InTeGrA GsR 321

I've heard about problems with Z10 sleeving...I originally was going to get mine sleeved by them since I live in Jersey...From what I heard, they used to be good, but whoever used to do the work doesn't work there any more and it's been problem after problem since he left, so I'm guessing the next man wasn't as qualified...But after hearing numerous opionions about them and their "sleeves sinking", I'm taking a ride to get my block sleeved by InlinePRO...

ABK

That's pretty shitty. I think that they sank because they weren't pressed all the way in. As soon as motor heated up they dropped in. Pretty nice. Note to myself "stay away from z10".

matt k

yup Ive seen every sleeve out there sink it happens. the guy on the phone just didn't sugar coat it when he told you how to fix it. if you put it in a press and the sleeves are sponge they need to come out.

miller

I am not here to justify anyones actions or to argue the point that your sleeves sank. I will say that i probably use more z10 sleeved blocks then anyone out there and the issues are very very far and few between. I couldnt tell you the last time i had an issue with one of there sleeved blocks.

Me personally, EVERY single block that i build will go onto my press and get a little pressure and slight mill of the deck afterwards. It is nothing personal against any of the sleeving companies but once the engine leaves my shop it is my name on it.

SD_Lurker

iTrader: (4)

Its not the sleeve design, its the machinist installing the sleeves. AEBS T-Sleeves, Darton MID's and GE Sleeves all use integrated decks or coolant passages where the sleeve sits on a ledge which makes sinking nearly impossible. The only way that sleeve could sink is if the block wasn't machined properly to begin with. AEBS/Z10 blocks have been proven time and time again to work and function with 0 issues. I think the problem stems from lazy or inaccurate machinists which in turn give AEBS T-Sleeves a bad name.

PowerAdder919

I will give them a chance to diagnose and correct the problem. I hope that they will be first-class in customer service. I'll keep you guys posted, in the meantime, I like to read more of your experiences and how those company took care of you when a product failed or did you get the run-around.

As I search to see how different companies are installing sleeve, unless it is a step-deck, it seems as if the installer are bolting down a torque plate to let it cure. Well doesn't this only allow the sleeves to go in as far as the deck instead of pressure seating it to the bottom of the machined faces?

Why is everyone installing them differently? Different compounds used to hold them in? One is pliable for years, I thought I've seen it crystalized hard. Even with Daton Sleeve, their installation guidelines don't say much to set minimal procedures for quailty control.
http://www.darton-international.com/Honda%20Manual.pdf

I swear there was video on YouTube.com of Z10 installing sleeves last month, has anyone else seen it? I think they took it down, it showed them droping it in by hand 95% of the way, then using a mallat taping on each one all the way down, then bolting on a full torque plate (like the ones used for boring cylinders) then leaving it on the table to cure?