rauber15

I know it's super low, but I'm running 8:2:1 compression wesico pistons along with eagle rods bored to 81.5, I'm putting a gsr head on it also which should raise the compression, but what turbo do you guys think I should use? I need to be able to spool it and make around 500hp. I have a budget but I need a decent quality turbo.
thanks guys

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Additional Questions that need to be answered before you can go further with this. But first, please increase that static compression.

JRCivic1

Putting a GSR cylinder head in place of a PR3 (B16A) head will increase the compression by only two or three TENTHS of a point... scientifically correct in your assessment above, but hardly relevant in this discussion... you will still only be at 8.4 to 8.5:1 compression !!! You need to be at 10:1.

Next, I suggest you apologize to Shodan for your snarky, troll like comment above. He will likely be the best, most knowledgeable source to answer your turbo related questions on this forum. You asked for the appropriate turbo to meet your needs... he linked a video for you to provide additional information so that the proper turbo could be selected. (Remember Jerry McGuire - "Help me... help you !!!").

Go have a slice of humble pie and then come back to the table. If you are lucky... the thread won't be locked.

93h2beg

Are you f*ing kidding me??? LMFAO.

You just told one of the most knowledgeable guys on this site to **** off.

Go check out Ebay- that should work well for your "budget"

Good luck.

93h2beg

LOCK IT DOWN!!!!!!!!!!

Balor_Gr

Its funny cause the guy you sent to hell probably has he best 450whp turbo for that power.
Search for STC hunter or silver surfer.
Other that that get this with the .63 a/r housing.
BorgWarner S252SX-E Turbocharger

rudebwoy

iTrader: (1)

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Nah.. I'm sure he'll figure out that these additional areas need to be addressed sooner or later. I don't take it personal. I tend to let life be the best teacher.

rauber15

Just curious to why you say I need to have at least 10:1 comp, I've seen many 8:1 compression setups and people love it.

93h2beg

you don't NEED 10 to 1.

you don't NEED forged pistons.

you don't NEED quality parts.

you don't NEED to listen to knowledgeable people.

It is suggested to run higher compression, todays turbos, tuning and misc. parts can net you so much more power than yesteryears low compression turbo setups did.

But hey I what do I know....

Youtube and eBay have all of the answers.

JRCivic1

It took 29 psi to make 560 wheel HP on that 8:1 B16A... you could likely do it with 22-23 psi, all else being the same of course, if the engine was 10:1. Now imagine how much MORE power you could make if you raised the boost up to 29 psi on that 10:1 B16A ??? Quality fuels and extensively developed engine management make this possible today.

Why are you so intent on using 8:1 compression ??? I mean, you went hunting online to discover "facts" that support your choice ???

Balor_Gr

8 , 8.5:1 can be used but the car will be a turd out of boost.
On the other hand no one should ever care about how much boost is needed for his power goal in 2017.
Boost is just a restriction and when with 850$ you can buy a map like this, psi gets irrelevant powerwise.




In europe 95 out of 100 cars use at least 25 psi.Most of them 30+ even on small whp setups like 250-300-350.
This of course due to the lack of honda like performance heads and small turbos, but everything works FINE.
I never understood why we hate boost so much.Ok Higher power on lower boost is better but never was nor will ever be
a requirement for a successful setup.

turbociv910

lol, why ruin one of the only thing good for Honda... COMPRESSION

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Higher power with lower boost can sometimes be better. Like you stated, it depends upon the turbocharger used and the efficiency range (boost pressure and RPM) that the turbocharger is in for a given cylinderhead airflow rate. I agree with you in the fact that people in the U.S. tend to not want to understand the concept that turbochargers like boost pressure.. That's what they were designed for..

Speaking cosmically, we all know there's such a thing as too much, in which turbocharger rotational speeds are no exception, but in many of these cases for the purposes that these are being used, the user tends to have a much more enjoyable experience when using a slightly smaller turbocharger that's within it's efficiency range running a bit higher boost pressure in order to more quickly reach an optimal dynamic compression (like 17.0:1, which is what you're really going for when in boost), than it would be to run a larger turbocharger on "lower boost" outside of its range on a smaller displacement engine with lower static compression.

If you pick the wrong turbo with that lower compression, behaviour of the car will be unwittingly undesirable.

Sure, you'd reach your "peak power" goal with BIG turbo on a B16 like the one shown above, but you're more or less fighting the car to control it than actually racing with it. The "light switch" power one gets, really hurts your acceleration rate, which in turn makes that car have to do that much more to catch up to the other car that did a better job at selecting the right Static compression/turbocharger choice. But, some people have to learn for themselves by making the wrong choice first, so that next time (if there is one, they'll make a smarter choice later.)

Autoworks

You really can't get to a specific detailed answer when the question itself has minimal information...vague at best.

rauber15

The shop i went to recommended me 8:2:1, since im running stock sleeves, he said it would be safer, since it is my weekend car and Id be using pump gas. I already spent my money on the pistons, the block got decked, and Im running a gsr head, I just have to make the best out of them. Any recommendations on what i should do? Throughout reading this thread, a smaller turbo I can spool faster and that can hold the power.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Well, seems as though the shop owner you're going to is stuck in 1988, and has not adopted any new information over the last 26 years regarding ignition/fuel timing. The "safer" thought process he's using is.. archaic, at best.

But, since you're stuck with them, it's best to change your expectations... Period. As Autoworks stated, you still have yet to answer the other questions. "Pump gas?" get specific. Purpose? I'll try again to state, "please see that video one more time", and be specific. If you don't want to take the time be specific, we won't take the time to give reasonable answers.

rauber15

WHP Goal: 450-500whp
Engine: B16A bored to 81.5mm with eagle rods, 8:2:1 wiseco pistons, stock gsr head
Fuel:93 octane
1994 civic coupe, fully gutted out.
Will be doing some drag racing, but mostly drive around my city on the street in the country only on super nice days.
Max RPM: I would imagine safely it would be at 7500rpm

Dwreck

I'd use stock cams to keep the compression from bleeding. Also next time you rebuild get it resurfaced a bit to bump up compression and possibly a thinner head gasket if the clearances are good. I think 9:1-10:1 compression is ideal for a turbo b-series depending on the set up. Lower compression mostly just makes the motor less responsive less hp/tq when you're not in boost and slightly safer for tuning. These motors like higher compression and I'm pretty sure the gsr head has better quench for the high compression.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

NOW, you're answering questions to help narrow things down..At least we can advise of what you should not get.

You'd be fine at over 9000rpms, but you need to go down in power expectations. Let's say about 400whp or so. You start going for what turbo size it takes to make 500whp on 93 Octane with 8.3:1 compression, you're going to have "light switch"-style power, where a stock Kia Optima will out-accelerate you easily on both the street and drag strip..

So, what that means is stay away from exactly what you posted. A PTE6262 (or any turbo for that matter regardless of company) over 65lbs/min in airflow, will be going absolutely backwards. You may be at low boost, and you may think you can make peak power, for 500whp, but you won't reach any efficient rpm until at least 6000rpms, and with only about at most 1200rpms of any powerband with that low-compression, you'll only be in that gear for about 2 tenths of a second before you have to shift. That equates to NO ACCELERATION.. Even worse when its using a Top Mount Exhaust manifold. Your own video example shows that person on C85, which is very high-knock resistant, so it can run higher boost pressures. You're talking 93 octane, and expect the same thing? Oh no sir. Pump your brakes. That won't happen.

The Dyno is different from actual application throughout the gearset and the powerband you're looking for. Sure, you'll bounce off the rev-limiter making smoke, but that's only because you'll lag for at least 4500rpms, (Boost-by-gear cannot save you here). Then maybe the car will get on its feet and progress forward.

Thousands of people over 10-12 years ago tried this with the older SC61 Garrett/PTE hybrids on B16s, just to make 300whp, (much less 450-500) .. And they regretted every single ******* minute of it. They sold those 6lbs/min SC61s right away to get something a bit more reasonable, because like most young cats when we did this, it was cool at first, then it just became annoying because you couldn't control the car..... Especially for the B16s.

Just because it looks good on paper, or a Youtube Dyno Video, doesn't necessarily mean it's what you're looking for.

rauber15

I understand, thank you for this write up, I understand it a lot more now. I've been having people tell me the lower compression the more power you will make when under boost. What turbo will help me spool earlier than 6k rpms that will support my horsepower?

Dwreck

I think for the amount you're spending to hit your goal you might as well rebuild the engine with something closer to 9.5-10:1 compression. Instead of spending a lot of $ trying to reach your power goal with that set up and end up having tons of lag. If you stick with low compression you'll probably need a very well thought out set-up and an expensive turbo/manifold.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

That's what I'm trying to tell you. You won't find one. There is no magic bullet turbo to do that. Lower the horsepower expectations, with that fuel and static compression you're using.

extremeracer

What The Shodan is saying here is that a turbo that will reach your power target of 500whp on 93 pump fuel will only fully spool after 6000 rpm and a turbo that will have a better powerband (ie earlier spool), will not reach 500whp on a low compression B16. If you were a 1.8 or 2.0 litre the larger displacement would help your boost response whereas on a 1.6 litre you kinda need all the help you can get to prevent it from being "dead" down low and off boost

If I can sum up the advice delivered in the entire thread so far, it is that basically a low compression B16 is a very difficult setup to try make work if you looking for something that will deliver both high horsepower numbers and a decent powerband. There is simply a trade off between those two aspects due to 1) the smaller displacement and 2) reduced thermal efficiency.

For a decent powerband you'll need to look at smaller turbos [GTX29, GT(X)30, Borg Warner S200 SX-E, PTE 5431 etc.) but these smaller turbos won't let you make 500whp on 93 Octane on the B16.

As mentioned earlier in the thread; a 400whp Honda with a nice broad powerband where Torque builds linearly, is far more fun and useful than a peaky tyre shredder that makes impressive peak numbers.

Autoworks

...we have very similar views most of the time, you just patiently explain them more thoroughly. Thumbs up to you there.