Suggested design to slash cut to induce Bernoulli effect?
06-14-2005, 10:26 AM
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Suggested design to slash cut to induce Bernoulli effect?
I have been thinking about how to design the best "slash cut tube" to introduce the Bernoulli effect for creating a suction in the tube connected. This is ment to be connected to the crankcase so that the vacuum created will suck out the vapors and lower the overall pressure in the crankcase (and head). I just want to see if I've hit the nail in the spot with this design, or is there another that will create more vacuum, while blocking the exhaust flow as little as possible?
06-14-2005, 10:35 AM
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Re: Suggested design to slash cut to induce Bernoulli effect? (Oyvind Ryeng)
That's the correct way to do it... slash cut with the opening facing downstream, that way it creates vacuum.
You should be good to go
You should be good to go
06-14-2005, 11:26 AM
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Re: Suggested design to slash cut to induce Bernoulli effect? (Oyvind Ryeng)
Just make sure you enter it into the exhaust AFTER your wideband or any other 02 sensor.
06-14-2005, 12:29 PM
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Re: Suggested design to slash cut to induce Bernoulli effect? (PrecisionH23a)
why is that? so you dont clog your O2 up with oil and other random hydrocarbons?
Oh and yes thats the correct way to set it up
Oh and yes thats the correct way to set it up
06-14-2005, 12:46 PM
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Re: Suggested design to slash cut to induce Bernoulli effect? (onePOINTsix)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by onePOINTsix »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">why is that? so you dont clog your O2 up with oil and other random hydrocarbons? </TD></TR></TABLE>
I'd imagine it's so you get the proper a/f readings and don't introduce "clean" air to the sensor.
I'd imagine it's so you get the proper a/f readings and don't introduce "clean" air to the sensor.
06-14-2005, 12:47 PM
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Re: Suggested design to slash cut to induce Bernoulli effect? (onePOINTsix)
Thats what i'm currently using at the moment, and it seems to be working pretty good. last week i just added another to my dump tube and valve cover vent... i might have to add a catch can because it smokes real bad when the waste gate opens during lots of boosting.
report back and let us know how yours works out.
report back and let us know how yours works out.
06-14-2005, 12:48 PM
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Re: Suggested design to slash cut to induce Bernoulli effect? (onePOINTsix)
do you plug the other end into your catch can? if you do, am I right to assume you plug or take off the open air filter on the top of the can? what size hose are you using?
sorry for the bomb of questions...
sorry for the bomb of questions...
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06-14-2005, 12:53 PM
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Re: Suggested design to slash cut to induce Bernoulli effect? (turbosi03)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turbosi03 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">do you plug the other end into your catch can? if you do, am I right to assume you plug or take off the open air filter on the top of the can? what size hose are you using?
sorry for the bomb of questions... </TD></TR></TABLE>
its gonna have to be a sealed catch can in order for the vacuum to keep pulling if you mount one inline.
i used 5/16" hose
sorry for the bomb of questions... </TD></TR></TABLE>
its gonna have to be a sealed catch can in order for the vacuum to keep pulling if you mount one inline.
i used 5/16" hose
06-15-2005, 03:15 AM
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Re: Suggested design to slash cut to induce Bernoulli effect? (EJ1 wilcox)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EJ1 wilcox »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That's the correct way to do it... slash cut with the opening facing downstream, that way it creates vacuum.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes, I figure if I reverse it, it will create pressure in the line connected to it and one definately don't want that in the crankcase.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PrecisionH23a »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Just make sure you enter it into the exhaust AFTER your wideband or any other 02 sensor.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I thaught about that, and it makes alot of sense to add the oily vapors to the exhaust stream after the O2 sensor to avoid contaminating it and getting false readings. I'm guessing the O2 sensor is not all that able to burn off (relative) huge amounts of oil, heated or not.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by evosol »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">report back and let us know how yours works out.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Sorry, it's still in the earliest of planning stages, and I'm estimateing many months will pass before I can actually do it. You see, I am the kind of guy who has to gain a complete and total understanding of every possible aspect of a thing before I do any modifications to it. That way, there is no way to **** up anything, and I train myself to see "the bigger picture" and to think ahead and plan things into the smallest detail beforehand.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by evosol »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">its gonna have to be a sealed catch can in order for the vacuum to keep pulling if you mount one inline.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I definately need an inline catch can to catch most of the oil. The police here in Norway will pull me over in a heartbeat and demand I have a thorough inspection at the DMV. At the DMV one usually gets a few weeks to turn the car back to the way it was stock and then have it re-inspected. If it's still does not comply with the (stupid motherfucking) regulations, they will take my plates. I then have to pay a huge sum to have my plates released back into my posession, IF I while the plates are confined return the car back to stock. I don't get the plates back (need them to drive) until the car complies with the regulations. Meanwhile, I have to buy "single day" plates /w liability-only insurance, and of course they are mighty costly.
All in all, I have to use a catch can to avoid having the goverment take most of my money. A sealed system is a must, and I was thinking to just have a drain valve in the bottom of it, so that I don't have to take it out of the car to drain it. Mind you, one could face the risk of getting sent to prison if one fails to return used oil and instead just spill it somewhere. Well, that seems to be enough ranting about how the Norwegian goverment ***** over everyone who loves cars in this "country".
Getting back to the subject at hand, I was trying to enquire in regards to the design of the slash cut itself. Thank you for your other information, really helpful, but I was interrested in the design/shape of the cut itself. Seeing if there is another design of the cut and/or tube that will create a stronger vacuum in the tube connected.
One more thing, could anyone enlighten me about the subject of how the exhaust system is not getting pressurized with the vast amounts of exhaust particles and pressure waves that flies by? Though I would think the exhaust system will be under a whole lot more pressure if one is running alot of horsepower trough a restrictive muffler at the end and not the "straight trough"-design most of us favours.
Yes, I figure if I reverse it, it will create pressure in the line connected to it and one definately don't want that in the crankcase.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PrecisionH23a »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Just make sure you enter it into the exhaust AFTER your wideband or any other 02 sensor.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I thaught about that, and it makes alot of sense to add the oily vapors to the exhaust stream after the O2 sensor to avoid contaminating it and getting false readings. I'm guessing the O2 sensor is not all that able to burn off (relative) huge amounts of oil, heated or not.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by evosol »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">report back and let us know how yours works out.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Sorry, it's still in the earliest of planning stages, and I'm estimateing many months will pass before I can actually do it. You see, I am the kind of guy who has to gain a complete and total understanding of every possible aspect of a thing before I do any modifications to it. That way, there is no way to **** up anything, and I train myself to see "the bigger picture" and to think ahead and plan things into the smallest detail beforehand.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by evosol »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">its gonna have to be a sealed catch can in order for the vacuum to keep pulling if you mount one inline.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I definately need an inline catch can to catch most of the oil. The police here in Norway will pull me over in a heartbeat and demand I have a thorough inspection at the DMV. At the DMV one usually gets a few weeks to turn the car back to the way it was stock and then have it re-inspected. If it's still does not comply with the (stupid motherfucking) regulations, they will take my plates. I then have to pay a huge sum to have my plates released back into my posession, IF I while the plates are confined return the car back to stock. I don't get the plates back (need them to drive) until the car complies with the regulations. Meanwhile, I have to buy "single day" plates /w liability-only insurance, and of course they are mighty costly.
All in all, I have to use a catch can to avoid having the goverment take most of my money. A sealed system is a must, and I was thinking to just have a drain valve in the bottom of it, so that I don't have to take it out of the car to drain it. Mind you, one could face the risk of getting sent to prison if one fails to return used oil and instead just spill it somewhere. Well, that seems to be enough ranting about how the Norwegian goverment ***** over everyone who loves cars in this "country".
Getting back to the subject at hand, I was trying to enquire in regards to the design of the slash cut itself. Thank you for your other information, really helpful, but I was interrested in the design/shape of the cut itself. Seeing if there is another design of the cut and/or tube that will create a stronger vacuum in the tube connected.
One more thing, could anyone enlighten me about the subject of how the exhaust system is not getting pressurized with the vast amounts of exhaust particles and pressure waves that flies by? Though I would think the exhaust system will be under a whole lot more pressure if one is running alot of horsepower trough a restrictive muffler at the end and not the "straight trough"-design most of us favours.
06-15-2005, 05:17 AM
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hmm this is intresting... I purchased a Mr. asket crankcase evacuaton (2 slash cut weld in tubes, 2 check valves and 2 oil separators which im not going to use)... Their instructions say to insert the tube at a 45* angle and to have the peak of the slash cut fasing the muffler side of the exhaust... basically so it ends up flat inside the collector or in my case downpipe..
06-15-2005, 07:37 AM
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Re: (Boosted96EK)
here's the kit i have, pretty simple and straight forward, just had to put the actual 'slash' cut on the pipe.
http://www.secureperformanceor...=5340
http://www.secureperformanceor...=5340
06-15-2005, 07:47 AM
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Re: Suggested design to slash cut to induce Bernoulli effect? (Oyvind Ryeng)
If you built a venturi it would be far more effective. The tube should probably be turned so that the outlet is parallel with the other side of the tube. (This is drawn from my knowledge of carbs so correct me if i'm wrong.)
06-15-2005, 09:57 AM
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Re: Suggested design to slash cut to induce Bernoulli effect? (civicross)
i dont' think the angles of the slash cut tube have to be exactly 45*, or the tube having to be at a 45*. Bernoulli's law states that as gasses flow within a tube the pressure of the gas itself decreases, allowing the oil vapors to push it self into the exhaust stream.
I have my tube situated in the exhaust at a 90* with aproximately 45* slash cut. It seems to draw oil vapors just fine because after doing a couple of 1-3rd gear pulls i can definately smell oily exhaust and occasional puffs of smoke.
The best way to get maximum vacuum from your slash cut would be to go with an exhaust system with max flow.
EDIT: actually i wonder if you might get more vacuum with an exhaust that has a higher velocity flow? smaller exhaust...
I have my tube situated in the exhaust at a 90* with aproximately 45* slash cut. It seems to draw oil vapors just fine because after doing a couple of 1-3rd gear pulls i can definately smell oily exhaust and occasional puffs of smoke.
The best way to get maximum vacuum from your slash cut would be to go with an exhaust system with max flow.
EDIT: actually i wonder if you might get more vacuum with an exhaust that has a higher velocity flow? smaller exhaust...
06-15-2005, 04:54 PM
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Re: Suggested design to slash cut to induce Bernoulli effect? (Oyvind Ryeng)
It would be nice to install it at the smallest diameter of the exhaust piping, because that's where the velocity is fastest and the pressure is lowest which will really induce the bernoulli effect. Works just like the atomizers in the old perfume bottles. hehe
06-18-2005, 06:55 AM
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<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by civicross »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you built a venturi it would be far more effective.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I think you are correct, but I can't see how one could speed up the exhaust gas flow unless one uses a smaller diameter exhaust system (wich goes against my dream of a high efficiency engine; the smaller exhaust tubing is choking the flow). Perhaps one could use a smaller diameter further towards the rear where the exhaust gases are cooler and take up less volume, but it seems to me that one could just as well place the tube closer to the engine in the larger pipe and get just the same amount of suction (even if the exhaust diameter is larger here, the volume of the exhaust scooting by is higher than further towards the rear due to the heat).
Now, an electric vacuum pump between the crankcase and exhaust seems to me to be the way to go if one desires a lower pressure in the crankcase than what the bernoulli-inducing slash cut tube can provide.
I think you are correct, but I can't see how one could speed up the exhaust gas flow unless one uses a smaller diameter exhaust system (wich goes against my dream of a high efficiency engine; the smaller exhaust tubing is choking the flow). Perhaps one could use a smaller diameter further towards the rear where the exhaust gases are cooler and take up less volume, but it seems to me that one could just as well place the tube closer to the engine in the larger pipe and get just the same amount of suction (even if the exhaust diameter is larger here, the volume of the exhaust scooting by is higher than further towards the rear due to the heat).
Now, an electric vacuum pump between the crankcase and exhaust seems to me to be the way to go if one desires a lower pressure in the crankcase than what the bernoulli-inducing slash cut tube can provide.
06-18-2005, 10:00 AM
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Re: Suggested design to slash cut to induce Bernoulli effect? (Oyvind Ryeng)
Mr Gasket makes a "kit" to do this on v-8 cars. It is a slash cut tube with a 1way valve at the top. It also comes with adapters for v-8 valve covers (throw those away).
I installed mine immediately after the collector of my 4-1 header. And I ran the breather from the back of my block (b20) to a catchcan then out to the exhaust. It seems to work well, at high rpm very little pressure comes out of the valvecover vent tube.
I installed mine immediately after the collector of my 4-1 header. And I ran the breather from the back of my block (b20) to a catchcan then out to the exhaust. It seems to work well, at high rpm very little pressure comes out of the valvecover vent tube.
07-22-2005, 07:34 AM
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Re: Suggested design to slash cut to induce Bernoulli effect? (Oyvind Ryeng)
I'm new, and I was wondering what the "perks" were for doing this, I tried to search but nothing came up. Can anyone explain the reason for doing this. I am not being sarcastic either; just want to know thanks.
07-22-2005, 09:40 AM
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Re: Suggested design to slash cut to induce Bernoulli effect? (Oyvind Ryeng)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Oyvind Ryeng »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well, that seems to be enough ranting about how the Norwegian goverment ***** over everyone who loves cars in this "country".</TD></TR></TABLE>
Read my sig....
Read my sig....
07-22-2005, 11:20 AM
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Re: Suggested design to slash cut to induce Bernoulli effect? (Turboredteg)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Turboredteg »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm new, and I was wondering what the "perks" were for doing this, I tried to search but nothing came up. Can anyone explain the reason for doing this. I am not being sarcastic either; just want to know thanks. </TD></TR></TABLE>
The idea is to have the exhaust suck out the vapors and pressure that resides within the crankcase. Turbos and higher cylinder pressures contribute to alot of blow-by and thereby pressure; and in the crankcase; that (pressure) is a big no-no. Pressure here can un-seat the rings, blow oil into the combustion chamber (can you say "detonation"?), and excert a force on the piston that try to push it up. This last problem is worse with NA, since the turbine will hold a certin pressure that pushes the piston down when the cams overlap. NA cars have suction at this point; and pressure in the crankcase excerts an unneccesary force on the rod bolts, rods, bearings and the piston pin.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SnOOpY-NO »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Read my sig.... </TD></TR></TABLE>
Hey Snoopy; nice to see you again. Would you mind if I cry on your E-shoulder when I have to pay the $400 annual tax and $170 tax to have my plates back and to top it off have to pay $100 to fill my gas tank? (Yes you heard right, that's A HUNDRED GODDAMN DOLLARS (of wich 80% is pure tax))?
</TD></TR></TABLE>The idea is to have the exhaust suck out the vapors and pressure that resides within the crankcase. Turbos and higher cylinder pressures contribute to alot of blow-by and thereby pressure; and in the crankcase; that (pressure) is a big no-no. Pressure here can un-seat the rings, blow oil into the combustion chamber (can you say "detonation"?), and excert a force on the piston that try to push it up. This last problem is worse with NA, since the turbine will hold a certin pressure that pushes the piston down when the cams overlap. NA cars have suction at this point; and pressure in the crankcase excerts an unneccesary force on the rod bolts, rods, bearings and the piston pin.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SnOOpY-NO »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Read my sig.... </TD></TR></TABLE>
Hey Snoopy; nice to see you again. Would you mind if I cry on your E-shoulder when I have to pay the $400 annual tax and $170 tax to have my plates back and to top it off have to pay $100 to fill my gas tank? (Yes you heard right, that's A HUNDRED GODDAMN DOLLARS (of wich 80% is pure tax))?
07-22-2005, 01:25 PM
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Re: Suggested design to slash cut to induce Bernoulli effect? (Oyvind Ryeng)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Oyvind Ryeng »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The idea is to have the exhaust suck out the vapors and pressure that resides within the crankcase. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Dont know why you are asking all those questions when you can find your answers her sir : https://honda-tech.com/zero...age=1
Alot of ways to do this covered, and some tested by the same guy where you get numbers of how much vacuum they could get out that thing.....
The idea is to have the exhaust suck out the vapors and pressure that resides within the crankcase. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Dont know why you are asking all those questions when you can find your answers her sir : https://honda-tech.com/zero...age=1
Alot of ways to do this covered, and some tested by the same guy where you get numbers of how much vacuum they could get out that thing.....
07-22-2005, 05:44 PM
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Re: Suggested design to slash cut to induce Bernoulli effect? (SnOOpY-NO)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SnOOpY-NO »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Dont know why you are asking all those questions when you can find your answers her sir : https://honda-tech.com/zero...age=1
Alot of ways to do this covered, and some tested by the same guy where you get numbers of how much vacuum they could get out that thing..... </TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes, I've read that thread; definately some good info there. This thread, however, was regarding the design of the slash-cut itself (or "utforming" as we say in Norwegian). But as it seems, there are only so many ways to slash-cut a pipe and put it in the exhaust. From what I've gathered, and from a theoretical standpoint, one could run a small-diametre free-flowing exhaust to induce the highest possible gas velocity, and thus increase suction; or run the vacuum pump-solution.
Alot of ways to do this covered, and some tested by the same guy where you get numbers of how much vacuum they could get out that thing.....
</TD></TR></TABLE>Yes, I've read that thread; definately some good info there. This thread, however, was regarding the design of the slash-cut itself (or "utforming" as we say in Norwegian). But as it seems, there are only so many ways to slash-cut a pipe and put it in the exhaust. From what I've gathered, and from a theoretical standpoint, one could run a small-diametre free-flowing exhaust to induce the highest possible gas velocity, and thus increase suction; or run the vacuum pump-solution.
01-31-2006, 07:40 PM
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Re: Suggested design to slash cut to induce Bernoulli effect? (Oyvind Ryeng)
sorry to bring this back from the dead but i was just wondering what tubing you guys were using to run the line from the exhaust slash cut up to the crankcase. gotta be something that can take a lot of heat but still be flexible. copper?
02-01-2006, 12:28 AM
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Re: Suggested design to slash cut to induce Bernoulli effect? (SnOOpY-NO)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well, that seems to be enough ranting about how the Norwegian goverment ***** over everyone who loves cars in this "country".</TD></TR></TABLE>
Doesnt get any better here in finland either.
Doesnt get any better here in finland either.
02-01-2006, 02:59 AM
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Re: Suggested design to slash cut to induce Bernoulli effect? (Flashmn)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Flashmn »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Doesnt get any better here in finland either. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Cool, a fellow Finn You should move to Detroit, we love car enthusiasts here, and you don't have to worry about emissions. SISU
</TD></TR></TABLE>Cool, a fellow Finn
You should move to Detroit, we love car enthusiasts here, and you don't have to worry about emissions. SISU
02-01-2006, 08:02 AM
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Re: Suggested design to slash cut to induce Bernoulli effect? (TranceadikT)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TranceadikT »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">gotta be something that can take a lot of heat but still be flexible. copper?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah, I was thinking copper myself, or thin-walled steel. After all, all one needs to do is to slash-cut the end of it and stick it into the exhaust stream at an angle.
Yeah, I was thinking copper myself, or thin-walled steel. After all, all one needs to do is to slash-cut the end of it and stick it into the exhaust stream at an angle.