IntegraGSR(-1)

my local honda tuner/builder is suggesting that i get my block step decked, just wondering if it will help save head gaskets, or what....any first hand info with step decking would be great...

earl

No need to do either. For best gasket seal, you want your block as flat and smooth as possible. This is per an article by SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers)

tony1

I don't think you can argue that a proper oring setup can help seal. From my experience anyways...

ninesecteg

the only motor i had that didn't push coolant on a pass had a .003-.004 step in the deck.

Burntrubber87

What does that mean? stepped deck?

ki11a8ee

yea stepped deck. Just get o-rings you ll have leaking problems with step deck. Earl is right you need a flat surface.

trickeng

with open deck sleeves (i.e. RS Machine) i make sure they have a .003-.004 step and it has proven to work great.

with closed deck we surface flat and either use Cometic HP gaskets for the extra fire ring pressure or o-ring.

99B16Si

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Burntrubber87 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What does that mean? stepped deck?</TD></TR></TABLE>
step deck means the cylinders are actually sitting a hair higher than the the rest of the deck surface

earl

OK, ponder this...Steel gaskets do NOT crush, steel cylinders do not crush or move...how do you get a perfect seal with neither item moving? The aluminum has to give. Because of head studs, the block will not adjust, so the only thing left is for the head to WARP.
We took a head with zero leak down and bolted it to a step deck. We got 10% leakage across the exhausts. Pulled the head and it was back to zero leak on the head. Never did another step deck again.

IntegraGSR(-1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by earl &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">OK, ponder this...Steel gaskets do NOT crush, steel cylinders do not crush or move...how do you get a perfect seal with neither item moving? The aluminum has to give. Because of head studs, the block will not adjust, so the only thing left is for the head to WARP.
We took a head with zero leak down and bolted it to a step deck. We got 10% leakage across the exhausts. Pulled the head and it was back to zero leak on the head. Never did another step deck again.</TD></TR></TABLE>


thanks for the good input earl, my setup could reach the 500 hp mark if pushed even then no need, but i understand everything you said, tell me about any setups youve did without them, car, hp, tq, times, just looking for good info....thanks again

boostismycrack

I would like input on this as well. both of my blocks are rs macine stepped deck blocks and have always had head gasket issues.

Muckman

iTrader: (2)

wait a minute... if steel gaskets do not crush then can I reuse head gaskets? Seriously.

Suprdave

Didnt Benson sleeves used to all be stepped deck?

Suprdave

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Muckman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">wait a minute... if steel gaskets do not crush then can I reuse head gaskets? Seriously. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I know some NMRA Renegade Racers who reuse MLS Gaskets multiple times...

They only change them if they blow them...

earl

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boostismycrack &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I would like input on this as well. both of my blocks are rs macine stepped deck blocks and have always had head gasket issues.</TD></TR></TABLE>I think if you measure the heights on those sleeves, you will find them all over the place.

earl

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Muckman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">wait a minute... if steel gaskets do not crush then can I reuse head gaskets? Seriously. </TD></TR></TABLE>As long as the embossing is still raised where it is supposed to be and there is no burning, I think they can be reused. This assumes the head and the block have good surfaces.

earl

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Suprdave &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Didnt Benson sleeves used to all be stepped deck?</TD></TR></TABLE>Yes, guilty as charged. I'm not saying everyone should go out and surface their blocks to flat decks but just that we don't see the benefits of a proud sleeve anymore. So everything is now smooth and flat for the last year or so.

Muckman

iTrader: (2)

Another point to add is the stepped deck is only good for one build. If you ever have the deck milled you lose the step and you can't get it back.

ninesecteg

you can get the step back if you have a machine shop with newer equipment. for a 500whp car head gaskets shouldn't be an issue with proper tuning. now i have seen 84mm bore sizes do some weird things if you try to much step. bolt a head down to bare block and take it to a machine shop to have them measure the bores. you'll be surprised how much those sleeves give.

DaveF

we have seen over 800 with a copper o-ringed block and havent had any problems yet.

SPOOLINmatt

ive changed my orings out 3 times in the past 3 weeks. man thats a pain in the *** to find out a sleeve sank.

IntegraGSR(-1)

well theres alot of good info, and im really nervous either way i go, exp since my best friends 400whp setup just went down, a skunk2 valve snapped at the end where its seats at and severed the head and #4 piston and theres metal shaving all in his motor...( cause pretty sure defective valve)


Modified by IntegraGSR(-1) at 7:54 AM 5/6/2006

earl

valves rarely break on their own. He needs to look for another problem.

trickeng

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by earl &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">OK, ponder this...Steel gaskets do NOT crush, steel cylinders do not crush or move...how do you get a perfect seal with neither item moving? The aluminum has to give. Because of head studs, the block will not adjust, so the only thing left is for the head to WARP.
We took a head with zero leak down and bolted it to a step deck. We got 10% leakage across the exhausts. Pulled the head and it was back to zero leak on the head. Never did another step deck again.</TD></TR></TABLE>

the black coating on the headgasket is near .002 thick so that will displace only leaving .001 - .002 and there is no way that will cause 10% leakage. was it more than .003? if so, thats where the warpage came from.

PrecisionH23a

I had my block copper o-ringed about 5yrs ago and never ran into any problems. But I do not think it is really necessary... especially since it creates a weaker area by the top of the sleeve.