lazerus

Ok, this is me venting, but i would llike your opinions too. cliff notes at bottom for you people who dont like to read stuff.

Ok, a few weeks ago i went to a las vegas meet with a bunch of friends/car enthusiasts. (Most of us had isuzu based cars, and a turboGSR & type R)

I wasn't able to take my personal car, due i broke a halfshaft in reverse (bound up after working on the car and snapped in the joint)

Anyway, We were in las vegas, and my friend just finished his Turbo I-mark with a Haltech E6GM 10.2:1 c/r T3/t04e Turbo etc...

he made his first pass running 30 lbs of shitty boost (on 118 octane lead) and managed a 14.2.

Being a good friend i wanted to take a look at his haltech because i have the same unit, and am very well versed with tuning theory etc. ( i read and experiment a hell of a lot, thus why i frequent the honda-tech forums, to learn more.)

There is a third gentlemen (we'll call him John) that is with us on the meet that is much older than me (10 years) and claims to be very well versed with the haltech, yet has no tuning experience, and his fastest car runs mid 14's in the 1/4.

Anyway, i hop in the hot seat. And i immeditely notice many problems. timing would go from 40 deg adv. and when pressures hit 0 psi, timing went to 15 deg and was like that all the way up to 30 psi. (this on 118 octane.) Granted he said it was a rough map. but damn, i swear this guy (owner of the car) didn't have any prior tuning experience.

I immediately start fixing the maps, and added in 3 deg total timing from 10 psi boost up (and linearised [Calculated for you AEM people ] between 0 boost and 10 psi (i belive timing around 24 deg @ 10 psi) and the same from 10-15 lbs and kept timing up at 18 total timing the rest the way up.

Anyway, his next pass... 12.7 on 10 lbs less boost. I review the datalogs to make more changes and add more timing (hell, we're on 118 octane!) John is constantly over my shoulder telling me im "doing it wrong" and i "need to add timing in where the car makes power and not at 1000 RPMs"

Im basically trying to fix the whole map, since it runs pig rich off and on boost (full on rich) and idle injector pulse width was at the minimum the haltech could fire them accurately (720cc/min injectors) So i was adding in some timing to keep from fouling the plugs, because he had been complaining of this. (moving around the pits and such.) Also his throttle pump settings were fucked, and this john guy tells me not to mess with those because he previously set them (the car bogged horribly when you revved it.)

Then another instance as i was reviewing/modifying maps, the ECU disconnects and i dont notice, and i make several changes to the fuel mapping. Naturally, i go to save the map (this john guy is over my shoulder this whole time "making sure i dont mess things up" ) and he asks me what the hell im doing (because obviously the save menu is the same as the load, and at the time he saw that load was highlighted) and he goes and tells mike, and comes back and tells me very sternly not to load any maps! (Naturally i did what i needed to do, saved the map, and reconnected and loaded the saved map.)

The fastest time of the night was an 11.5 @ 122 at a fluctuating boot level of 17-21 psi or so.

Now this guy is calling me a pathelogical liar, telling me that i would have seriously messed up the mapping if he wasn't there to make sure to screw things up. This naturally seriously insults my intelligence. Also claims now that i am insulting him and mike (owner of the car)

Since this incident i've fabricated intercooler pipes for a MK4 Supra, installed an HKS DLI properly, and also an AEM EMS management system that a local competent speed shop could not get running correctly, in which after i worked on it, fired right up on a aem base map, and then proceeded to tune on pump gas and now is making over 500 whp on pump gas (dynoed before our install after we tuned with an HKS VPC/GCC Combo and now feels slightly faster)

I've also managed to pull an engine out of my geo storm when i was 16 by myself, source parts, and purchased a different engine, built the engine MYSELF in my garage, and then proceeded to install it, along with a haltech standalone fuel management system, finishing the project in late 2002 (money and custom parts too much time to get) I did all this with very little knowledge of cars, only knowing how to change the spark plugs/oil bascailly with some knowledge of how engines worked. obviously learning much in the process, and has been a continual learning process since (and will remain that way indefinately, of course)

I also managed to graduate high school when i was 16 years old, get hired to work for a computer network/ISP in a different state and worked there 2 years before i retired.

Now, do you think i am in the wrong? Am i a stupid kid who doesen't know how to view haltech datalogs, save maps, let alone build my own engine? Do i insult fellow enthusiasts by saying that i am a competent knowledgable tuner?

I also have tuned a few DSMS, people bring their cars to ME because they run mediocre, and i am able to fix their problem almost 100% of the time. Another example.

My friend and i were in his subaru WRX, and we met someone he knew while out looking for races (hey you gotta have fun right? ) and we pulled over to talk, and he couldn't boost over .9 bar. And the two performance shops he took it to said they didn't know why it wouldn't (car had gt25-30 turbos and a bunch of other shat.) I spent the next 10 minutes diagnosing it, and brought it back to my shop and fixed it in about 45 minutes.

Ok enough examples.

Cliffnotes:

Went to vegas. Tuned a car, Guy watching said im stupid and dont know how to tune.

Car ran 14.2 before i touched it, 11.5 on 10 lbs less boost (and on somewhat conservative timing and other problems (.38 a/r turbine) ) Fellow still says i am stupid and dont know how to tune.

Ruins my good name on another msg. board and calls me stupid and pathy. liar.

i expalain im good at what i know, and problem solving. rant some more.

Tell me if you think im in the right, or im stupid and should go back to being a rice boy and drive my geo around.

Thanks for your input people.

Brad

pissedoffsol

i think you should drive your geo around regardless its a hell of a sleeper.

but **** that guy man.

psileepR

you obviously know what you are doing. dont let that dick get to you.

The better times should be proof enough.


Maybe you should have reloaded the crappy maps b4 you left and told that "john" guy to tune it himself and see if he can still drop his times 2-3 secs...

turb

damn that john guy is so childish..i guess he's feeling insecure knowing that there is someone who know more about tuning than he is. at least you made the car run faster and that's what really counts right? let the numbers speak for themselves.

ScrapinSi

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by psileepR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you obviously know what you are doing. dont let that dick get to you.

The better times should be proof enough.


Maybe you should have reloaded the crappy maps b4 you left and told that "john" guy to tune it himself and see if he can still drop his times 2-3 secs... </TD></TR></TABLE>

exactly my words... I do that all the time... there is this kid that everybody brings their car to for work, because he worked as a mechanic at honda (Oil Change bitch) and he ALWAYS calls me asking me questions and ****... But on his own car (2000 Civic Si) he was saying that he has to take his car back because it needs a IAC Valve... I was like WTF are you talking about... he's like "the idle jerks from 800-2000 rpms every now and then... I check all the connections and everything was fine, so the IAC must be bad... "

My reply to him was "Do you use your cruise control often? " to which he said no.. I said "Get on the highway and try to use your cruise control... i'll bet ya $20 that the light will come on but it wont hold speed"... he was like yeah right, whatever...

Then he left, about 20 mins later, my phone rings and its him, and he's like "**** YOU! How did you know that? WTF is it?"

I told him "Diagnose your cruise control and you'll find the answer"

Charlie Moua

iTrader: (3)

damn long post....
but then agian I like reading.

well honesly JOHN is a dick period. In know that most tunners who are having troble at the track and if a fellow tunner comes along as offers to help (if he seem like he knows his ***** like you) The would be happy as hell of that guy tuned it and it ran faster...reguardless of how much faster. Also it must of idles faster and got better MPG too. Damn some people let their own damn pride get in the way. Not to mention that your 10 years younger then him. Older people get offened easyer.

haha 30psi on ANY motor desent any you should see at least 12s.....haha I would love to see that crappy runs.

You seem to be very knowledageble about what you are doing. I know your not trying to brag about what you've done at your age ect. I completely understand you bro. ( but i can see where some might think you had different inttneions though). I'm young my self and have done a few cool things for my age.

Yeah when you were about to load the new maps and that JOHN guy came over I would of left it at that and reset that bitch and have it tune to better than you. Stupid jerk must of though you did some Vtec Voodoo to it or somthing.. haha

And you so called friend who was stupid enough to take JOHNs advice in coming over to tell you not to load up the new maps. If I were you I would not have friends like that. Real friends have trust and will do what it take to only help you be better or be a better person, he should of understand and knew that you only had good intentions. So what did he say when 30 minutes and 4 runs later when his car operated smoother, didn't bogg when you reved it and ended up with a 3sec better time? if he bitch about it I would of left that sorry groupe of people.

If you tweeked out my car with an afc at the track and I ended up running only 1 sec faster I would freaken be your best of best friend buy you dinner, and claim you as "my personal tech" hahhah

What state are you in bro? I would like to meet more people who go out of their way to help out when they can.

DaveF

yes i agree with most all the other reply's...F THAT GUY.


you did what you could with what you had and you made it run good. thats all there is to it. good job. 11.5 is no turtle.

i just got an idea. you should have erased your "map" after the 11.5 pass, gave the computer to the "non believer john" and told him to make it run right if he is soooooo knowledgeable on the haltech subject..

f- the haters.

falcongsr

hey dude, i deal with that **** every day at work. I am 25 and the next youngest person is 40 and you wouldnt believe the **** i gotta put up with. I was the only person that DIDNT get this f*cking virus this week and I was helping everyone out and I STILL got **** from older people who couldnt handle having a punk *** kid tell them how to fix their ****. I just walk away before I bust a vein. Still makes my blood boil though.

baphomet

damn I hate those people that think they know eveything. Those are the people that will stay stupid forever because they can't accept the fact that someone else knows more than they do - they feel, for them, that there is nothing left to learn.

I get **** like that everyday from old dumb **** professors who think their mail order masters some how makes it impossible for me to know more about the subject that they (attempt) to teach (poorly).

I wish there was something that could be done - anyway, makes me feel better that I am not the only one. Go take your map back and let the 'geniuses' tune their own 14 second car.

zizux

brad, It does seem that you good at making bad impressions, from what I have been hearing the past week or so. I hope you can turn mine into a good impression. BTW did you get my letter?

My personal experiance with you so far has been that your a cool guy that just hasn't been all that motivated to get anything else done but your own car. Which I can understand the desire to get your project up and running, but at the expence of a customer who has been waiting for almost 4 months? Not to mention a guy who bailed you out of jail? I understand somewhat the situation that has been part of the reason it is taking so long. But at the same time I see no reason for any further delay. Please respond to the letter/email I send you. Honestly would like for everything to get worked out between us so you can have some positive word spread about you guys and the work you do. But at this point I don't see that happening.

mlhardy

I am going to have to agree with zizux on this one. I have net you and you seem like a cool enough guy. Problem is when you tell somebody that something is going to take a week or 2 and 4 months later they are stuck without a car because they sold the other one anticipating that theirs would be done. Best thing to do is just be upfornt with people and not give them the runaround. I hope that you can get htis worked out.

lazerus

Thanks for all the replies!... And richard, i've basically helped take over a deal that my older brother made. I've been so busy this past week. For example, today i worked from 8:00 AM till 3:00 AM with little to no breaks. Too much stuff do do, and not enough time.

I'll remind him again to call you, he should handle the rest of the deal and i'll be assisting him finish your car. As far as "buisness" matters go, i wont be doing any more work for "customers" because most all the fabrication tools will be finding a new home in california, and i'll be working at a certain different shop, as well as a new job that i've started.

I'm going to let that john guy have it though. To learning and new experiences, life's full of them!

AWDimpulse

Actually John does know his **** on tuning a Haltech. Or other EMS's at that. The main issue between Brad and John they don't like each other over one thing or another.