The Destroyer

Alright guys, I have a 1990 Integra with a B20B. I only want to make around 210-220 whp. I am aware that there are better tuning options out there, but im curious if I can get away with making that power on just an AFC for tuning.

Plus it will be cost effective, if I were to get a proper engine management id go the uberdata route. That requires me to change to OBD1 and then buy everything for uberdata itself.

TIA,
Eric

sleepin91teg

Well you could use turboedit, wich works with obd-o....but we dont know ur setup...ur goals, arent too high so id say you can do it...but safc does nothing to retard timing...wich is the problem...thats my .02

The Destroyer

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sleepin91teg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well you could use turboedit, wich works with obd-o....but we dont know ur setup...ur goals, arent too high so id say you can do it...but safc does nothing to retard timing...wich is the problem...thats my .02</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah the timing control is what irks me the most.

sleepin91teg

200 hp isnt too much...but you can use the msd btm, and run the safc hack! search for it!

jfoster

iTrader: (1)

Man, I have an MSD 6 BTM FS/FT....and I might be interested in your GSR head

The Destroyer

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jfoster &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Man, I have an MSD 6 BTM FS/FT....and I might be interested in your GSR head </TD></TR></TABLE>

I take it the MSD controls timing?

I really wish you werent selling a straight T4.

notoriousB

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sleepin91teg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">but you can use the msd btm, and run the safc hack! search for it!</TD></TR></TABLE>

the BTM will NOT control the timing advance of the AFC hack properly. search is your friend.

Joseph Davis

Thank you, notoriousB

The Destroyer

I searched, But the only solid info I have came up with is that you can set the BTM to retard timing per psi. But I also have read that the AFC makes the ECU go full advance?

So set to base timing 16 degrees and use the BTM to pull timing per psi? And just get larger injectors and pull fuel with the AFC?

I need some clarification. TY.

beepy

MSD makes a BTM that is also an EIC. Why not save cash and just get that instead of a BTM and an SAFC?

The Destroyer

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by beepy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">MSD makes a BTM that is also an EIC. Why not save cash and just get that instead of a BTM and an SAFC?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I did a search and found nothing for the "EIC", im browsing the MSD website right now. What exactly does the "EIC" do?

beepy

Oh, sorry. EIC is extra injector controller. MSD calls it a "fuel adder". They have this one for the coilpack guys already running a DIS-2/4: MSD-6563


And I thought they had one for the 7-series ignition as well... Can't find it though.

99lspwr

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sleepin91teg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">200 hp isnt too much...but you can use the msd btm, and run the safc hack! search for it!</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes indeed you can run a btm with the safc, and it will work.....However without getting into a huge debate (been done many times before), it is not the safest thing to do...I had good luck with running up to 12 psi of boost on pump gas with my old set-up..But there are a couple of things to look out for if you are going to do his...First off, make sure you realize that there is no way you are ever going to know what your exact timing is set at...With the afc altering timing, and the btm not being 100% accurate, you are pissing in some slight wind....Also the afc normally does not do a good job with the a/f ratio at part throttle boosting conditions...It cannot compensate fast enough, therefore causing a lean condition for a second or two when you hammer the throttle...Also note that drivability is a little herky jerky on and off the throttle...Other than that, its not bad for how cheap you can get an afc for now days...For your goals, I would say go ahead and do it, even know there are much better ems systems out there... good luck....

Joseph Davis

AFC hack on OBD0 has no part throttle boosting leanness. OBD1+ gets increasingly complex...

99lspwr

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by J. Davis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

AFC hack on OBD0 has no part throttle boosting leanness. OBD1+ gets increasingly complex...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Whys that??????Just curious..

The Destroyer

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by J. Davis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

AFC hack on OBD0 has no part throttle boosting leanness. OBD1+ gets increasingly complex...</TD></TR></TABLE>

J, so it kind of works to my advantage that im obd0? That way it wont lean out during part throttle?

Sorry for all the questions, but I never really looked into an AFC until now. I just want a decent engine management for making low 200whp safe.

Joseph Davis

Have you read my "AFC hack ignition recurve explained" thread yet?

I used to chip the OBD0 shizzle for correct ignition curve with an AFC hack. I did a B20 map for JalopySiR, fuel tweaked as per his specification to suit the B20, he made 206 @ 6 psi with it. You buy your own chip burner, I give you his .bin free. It's your most economical solution. I ran it for two years on my CRX. You still get the bucking syndrome due to injector cut, but it's not bad.

BTW, upgrade to OBD1+ MAP sensor - they read a whole 1.25 psi more than the OBD0 units.

The Destroyer

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by J. Davis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Have you read my "AFC hack ignition recurve explained" thread yet?

I used to chip the OBD0 shizzle for correct ignition curve with an AFC hack. I did a B20 map for JalopySiR, fuel tweaked as per his specification to suit the B20, he made 206 @ 6 psi with it. You buy your own chip burner, I give you his .bin free. It's your most economical solution. I ran it for two years on my CRX. You still get the bucking syndrome due to injector cut, but it's not bad.

BTW, upgrade to OBD1+ MAP sensor - they read a whole 1.25 psi more than the OBD0 units. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I looked over it breifly, im going to reread the whole thread to understand everything. Thanks for the help J.

99lspwr

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by J. Davis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Have you read my "AFC hack ignition recurve explained" thread yet?

I used to chip the OBD0 shizzle for correct ignition curve with an AFC hack. I did a B20 map for JalopySiR, fuel tweaked as per his specification to suit the B20, he made 206 @ 6 psi with it. You buy your own chip burner, I give you his .bin free. It's your most economical solution. I ran it for two years on my CRX. You still get the bucking syndrome due to injector cut, but it's not bad.

BTW, upgrade to OBD1+ MAP sensor - they read a whole 1.25 psi more than the OBD0 units. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Come on J, I always knew you had a warm and cozy spot in your heart for the hack...

The Destroyer

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by J. Davis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

MSD BTM does nothing for afc hack ignition peak, as previously stated. You might lost a little in the low rpms off boost with your distributor dialed back a few degrees (who cares) but you get your final ignition timing correct and less of an ignition advance in low boost for free versus the money a BTM commands.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Pulled this from the thread. Im pretty sure im starting to understand why I do not need the BTM. If I pull 3 degrees at the distributor it will keep my final ignition lower therefor safer.

Now some guy said that "Lower MAP voltage = higher ignition timing.", So like J said you want to run a higher boost because it will raise MAP voltage therefore lowering timing?

Am I on the right track, or off the ******* cliff?

99lspwr

Just use the greddy blue box...

The Destroyer

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 99lspwr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Just use the greddy blue box... </TD></TR></TABLE>

Id really prefer how to use the basics of the AFC.

notoriousB

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Vtaaak y0 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Am I on the right track, or off the ******* cliff? </TD></TR></TABLE>

you're on the right track.

if you haven't already, definitely read all of the "AFC hack ecurve explained" thread - it explains the timing issues very well

The Destroyer

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by notoriousB &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

you're on the right track.

if you haven't already, definitely read all of the "AFC hack ecurve explained" thread - it explains the timing issues very well</TD></TR></TABLE>

Alright, I read it last night and understood alot of it. Ill read through it again.