Has a tuner ever told you to pull the wastegate spring to drive a car to him because you don't have a base map? I have never heard that. I thought it might mess something up. Just not sure. Any input would be appreciated.


Thanks
Jordan


Modified by BlakeJ53 at 11:29 PM 2/7/2008

 

So you won't go into boost.

 

as stated this allows you to run N/A basically until you can get properly tuned

 

It takes hondas a lot of work to spool the size turbos we use...your not just going to be driving and BAM suddenly your full spool, just don't give it more than half throttle and keep the rpm's down, the motor will never see boost

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AaronJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It takes hondas a lot of work to spool the size turbos we use...your not just going to be driving and BAM suddenly your full spool, just don't give it more than half throttle and keep the rpm's down, the motor will never see boost</TD></TR></TABLE>

???...it all depends on the turbo, how the motor is built, modifications etc. I would suggest towing a car somewhere to get tuned, don't even try to start it until a good tuner has given it a proper map to do so.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AaronJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It takes hondas a lot of work to spool the size turbos we use...your not just going to be driving and BAM suddenly your full spool, just don't give it more than half throttle and keep the rpm's down, the motor will never see boost</TD></TR></TABLE>

Please do not listen to that statement!! There is a reason you are using a certain tuner when advised by a tuner you trust please follow his advice rather than posting on a forum and taking poor advice.

Some of the best maps are built using that exact method of eliminating the boost factor and tuning N/A tables first.
Followed of course by adding boost as you go.
Personally I would rather you tow a car to me but if that isnt an option then removing the spring is fine if you have a proper basemap for the swap itself.

More importantly it appears you do not fully trust your tuner if your coming here to second geuss his suggestions. Maybe you should make sure you sre happy with your tuner before spending money with him??

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AaronJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It takes hondas a lot of work to spool the size turbos we use...your not just going to be driving and BAM suddenly your full spool, just don't give it more than half throttle and keep the rpm's down, the motor will never see boost</TD></TR></TABLE>
Check sig...

 

hahaha, are you guys serious?! The throttle plate has to be more than 30% open to provide enough load for boost....that not an exact statement or anything, but if you have ever driven a car with a boost gauge, you can drive pretty spiritedly without ever going past -5 in/hg

 

So then as a tuner you plan to tell ppl to rely on their foot to stay out of boost on their way to your shop to get tuned. You do realize when they hit boost for the first time on the way there and say ooooh that was fun it wont hurt if I do it just for a second. Motor pops and of course "my tuner said it would be OK"

And the lawsuit ensues

Long story short pick a tuner you trust and do what he tells you there is a reason you are paying him.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by D16Z6TURBO &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So then as a tuner you plan to tell ppl to rely on their foot to stay out of boost on their way to your shop to get tuned. You do realize when they hit boost for the first time on the way there and say ooooh that was fun it wont hurt if I do it just for a second. Motor pops and of course "my tuner said it would be OK"

And the lawsuit ensues

Long story short pick a tuner you trust and do what he tells you there is a reason you are paying him.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

well no lawsuit is gonna go thru on something like that man.... if your dumbshit enough to boost a car untuned, you deserve your motor to pop.... simple as that, i drove my car to my tuner with a 13psi spring... didn't hit boost once or even come close... like i said, if your that stupid you deserve your motor to blow

and if you dont think you can not drive the damn and not boost it, take the damn spring out

 

At 30% throttle, I can hit easily full boost @9-10 psi at about 4500 RPM. This, in turn, causes other problems, such as the ECU trying to run in closed loop (14.7 AFR@full boost=bad) It would be safer to allow the exhaust to bypass the turbo, and prevent the possibility of low throttle boost.
If it's stock 240cc injectors, and a stock ecu, you are probably ok to drive to the shop, as long as you stay compeltely out of boost. I wouldn't drive anywhere on an untuned "basemap".

 

thats what i am saying, stock ecu...stock injectors, drive it to the dyno. Its not hard at all to stay out of boost, its not like it "accidentally" happens. Plus, thewrai6th, you are using a baby snail, which most of us don't.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AaronJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Plus, thewrai6th, you are using a baby snail, which most of us don't.</TD></TR></TABLE>
True, this is the only reason I can hit full boost at 30% throttle. I still agree with the tuner who says pull the spring, it's safer than the possibility of boost.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AaronJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">thats what i am saying, stock ecu...stock injectors, drive it to the dyno. Its not hard at all to stay out of boost, its not like it "accidentally" happens. Plus, thewrai6th, you are using a baby snail, which most of us don't.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Have to give you credit there as that turbo will spool if you look at the gas!!

However Aaron you are right that it can be done.

But......
Do you see why removing the spring is just safer from a tuners viewpoint.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by D16Z6TURBO &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Have to give you credit there as that turbo will spool if you look at the gas!!

However Aaron you are right that it can be done.

But......
Do you see why removing the spring is just safer from a tuners viewpoint.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah i do understand why a tuner would ask that of a customer, because there are some dumb people out there who think they can just floor it over to they dyno. Its just that i have driven my car on stock everything, with a turbo kit...for over a month, and i never once saw a pound of boost. I also had to do it again once, and i just pulled out the BOV, which is easier than the wastgate spring.

 

It's pretty easy to go into boost accidentally if you were ever merging onto the highway with medium traffic... With Honda gearing, at around 60 mph the RPM's are easily over 3500RPM, and a slight dab on the throttle will give you 3-4 psi of boost. This happens on my Integra, with both the GT28RS and GT2871R...

Pull out the wastegate spring works like a charm, ONLY if the wastegate dump is recirculated back into the downpipe. If it is dumped to atmospheric, expect to drive a car that is no different than driving it with an open exhaust...LOL

You can also pull off the blow off valve to prevent boosting which seems to be a lot simpler than taking off the wastegate spring.

 

you can also pull the charge pipe off the tb if you dont want to pull the spring out

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by H.A.R.T B18C1EG6 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you can also pull the charge pipe off the tb if you dont want to pull the spring out
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Wouldn't this cause the car to die? Just wondering.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by StockDC2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Wouldn't this cause the car to die? Just wondering.</TD></TR></TABLE>
our cars have map sensors

you can pull the pipes off, but it can overspin the turbo. Pulling the spring is the best method imo.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by H.A.R.T B18C1EG6 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you can also pull the charge pipe off the tb if you dont want to pull the spring out
</TD></TR></TABLE>

That's a very bad idea....it's a recipe for overspun turbo The only reasonable options are to take out the wastegate spring or just be a normal driver who has the ability not to boost (it's not hard). That's assuming you have graduated from 1990's and aren't using a hairdryer for a turbo hehe


Modified by Dunc at 12:01 PM 2/8/2008

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by D16Z6TURBO &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So then as a tuner you plan to tell ppl to rely on their foot to stay out of boost on their way to your shop to get tuned. You do realize when they hit boost for the first time on the way there and say ooooh that was fun it wont hurt if I do it just for a second. Motor pops and of course "my tuner said it would be OK"

And the lawsuit ensues

Long story short pick a tuner you trust and do what he tells you there is a reason you are paying him.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

If the customer can't stay out of boost with no wastegate spring, he should spend the money and get the car towed. We have pulled wastegate springs before in the past for emissions purposes and the car never hit boost.

A lawsuit wouldn't hold up .

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RCautoworks &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If the customer can't stay out of boost with no wastegate spring, he should spend the money and get the car towed. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Agreed. Better yet the said customer who can't stay out of boost needs to spend the money on driving schools, education, and grow up Only ricers and people who don't care about their car's health beat on it when they have full knowledge that the car is running on the edge of disaster.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dunc &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Agreed. Better yet the said customer who can't stay out of boost needs to spend the money on driving schools, education, and grow up Only ricers and people who don't care about their car's health beat on it when they have full knowledge that the car is running on the edge of disaster.</TD></TR></TABLE>[QUOTE=Dunc]

On that note, I also had to give the car more then 30% throttle for the emission sensors to clear and be ready for emissions, if anything the car might of saw 1lb of boost if that. Car had a 57 trim turbo on it.

 

I agree with AaronJ. I run a relatively small turbo on my car and can get into boost pretty easily. With that said, if I don't want to get into boost, I won't. Taking out the spring isn't really a big deal either and is cheap insurance. I hope you have a dump tube on the car if you are taking out the spring because that WG will be opening a lot more often than it would usually be without the spring in it.

 

I agree that any lawsuit would not hold water but I was trying to make a point.
which it appears was understood the O.P was asking if removing spring was bad just explaining why I would have someone do it.
I agree there are options however I think his tuner was being safe and made a good call.