Roll call: D16 setups. Help me out!
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Roll call: LS or D16 setups. Help me out!
Hey guys, i'll be graduating from college this spring so i can finally start on a project. I'm planning on beefing up my D16 in a 95 civic. I'm just not sure what route i should go. I've been researching for well over a year now.
I guess my goals are as follows:
Its gotta be streetable
Want to run low to mid 12's on drag radials at the track.
I'm just curious to what all you D16 guys are running. List your setup's and times.
Also help me out, and tell me what i should do. Should i just buy a kit, like revhard or drag? Or should i put one together piece by piece (not junkyard parts)
If i dont go with a kit, what size turbo would be best?
Thanks for ANY input/help!
Peace
[Modified by ill_take_one, 8:56 PM 1/30/2003]
I guess my goals are as follows:
Its gotta be streetable
Want to run low to mid 12's on drag radials at the track.
I'm just curious to what all you D16 guys are running. List your setup's and times.
Also help me out, and tell me what i should do. Should i just buy a kit, like revhard or drag? Or should i put one together piece by piece (not junkyard parts)
If i dont go with a kit, what size turbo would be best?
Thanks for ANY input/help!
Peace
[Modified by ill_take_one, 8:56 PM 1/30/2003]
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Re: Roll call: D16 setups. Help me out! (GOLDBERG)
If I were you I would do a custom set-up for your d16. If you want to run mid-high 12s you are going to have to do a complete build (rods, pistons, sleeving would help you sleep better) and you will need some good engine management and tuning, not to mention a good amount of boost. If you want to go the cheaper route, swap in a b18 and throw on a vtec head and turbo later. I think you would be happier in the long run, because the d16 will get old fast. I put a lot of money into my sohc and b-series peeps with minimal boost still take me to school.....
#4
Re: Roll call: D16 setups. Help me out! (genop)
If I were you I would do a custom set-up for your d16. If you want to run mid-high 12s you are going to have to do a complete build (rods, pistons, sleeving would help you sleep better) and you will need some good engine management and tuning, not to mention a good amount of boost. If you want to go the cheaper route, swap in a b18 and throw on a vtec head and turbo later. I think you would be happier in the long run, because the d16 will get old fast. I put a lot of money into my sohc and b-series peeps with minimal boost still take me to school.....
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Re: Roll call: D16 setups. Help me out! (Meth)
I havent taken it to the track yet and the day before I was going to the dyno my clutch went out on me. Right now I am saving for a new clutch, then I should have some number on my set-up.
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Re: Roll call: D16 setups. Help me out! (genop)
If money is of no concern then I would go for the swap too. However I think a D16 is fully capable of what you need. As has been mentioned the motor has to be optimised to handle the loads that will be needed to propell the car through the 1/4 mile in your desired time. With stock internals I feel that motor should be capable of close to 200 hp. I made about 180 at 7psi. I am not a great drag racer but I was able to get high 14s with my car. I am sure someone with more experience could do better than that.
Power and speed are mostly dependent on funds. Also the proper suspension setup and LSD should be a consideration.
Power and speed are mostly dependent on funds. Also the proper suspension setup and LSD should be a consideration.
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Re: Roll call: D16 setups. Help me out! (neilap)
Well here's my whole deal.
Right now i'm driving an auto 95 ex civic. yeah
I've debated over a year now whether to turbo it when i get out of school. That's going to be a NO GO due to many horror stories, and no options as far as upgrading the valve bodies (not even level ten does it).
So now i have some options:
1. Sell my car, buy one just like it with a manual, then turbo
2. Keep my car, swap out the tranny then turbo
3. Keep my car, do a manual swap, with a B18B swap then turbo
So yeah, those are my options.
If i was to keep the D16, which turbo would best suit that situation.
If i was to go LS, which turbo would be best?
I plan on getting hondata or aem ems either way.
Also, I plan on getting rods and pistons.
How much does sleeving cost anyway? I suppose i have to take it to a shop to get them installed, right?
Any more thoughts/help?
Thanks guys..
Right now i'm driving an auto 95 ex civic. yeah
I've debated over a year now whether to turbo it when i get out of school. That's going to be a NO GO due to many horror stories, and no options as far as upgrading the valve bodies (not even level ten does it).
So now i have some options:
1. Sell my car, buy one just like it with a manual, then turbo
2. Keep my car, swap out the tranny then turbo
3. Keep my car, do a manual swap, with a B18B swap then turbo
So yeah, those are my options.
If i was to keep the D16, which turbo would best suit that situation.
If i was to go LS, which turbo would be best?
I plan on getting hondata or aem ems either way.
Also, I plan on getting rods and pistons.
How much does sleeving cost anyway? I suppose i have to take it to a shop to get them installed, right?
Any more thoughts/help?
Thanks guys..
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#8
Re: Roll call: D16 setups. Help me out! (ill_take_one)
If you're going to keep the D16, it depends what you get the tranny swap or another Civic for. If you have money, I would opt for the LS swap. At least you'll have DOHC, and if you want VTEC later, you can do a head swap.
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Re: Roll call: D16 setups. Help me out! (ill_take_one)
I wouldn't sell the car...I'd swap trannies first, but best choice is B18B IMO. Easy to get a B16 head later if you want more, but the turbo should do the trick even without veeeeetek.
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Re: Roll call: D16 setups. Help me out! (Hatchblack)
Ok, I was figuring people would tell me to go with the LS swap.
So what kind of setup would i need with the LS engine/5speed tranny?
What size turbo?
Would i have to get new sleeves in order to run 12's? or would good tuning be enough, along with the pistons and rods?
I just dont know what way i should go with the turbo situation now.
Go kit, or piece by piece.
If i went piece by piece, what would you all recommend for the turbo, manifold, intercooler, etc.??
Again, i want something streetable.
Thanks again
So what kind of setup would i need with the LS engine/5speed tranny?
What size turbo?
Would i have to get new sleeves in order to run 12's? or would good tuning be enough, along with the pistons and rods?
I just dont know what way i should go with the turbo situation now.
Go kit, or piece by piece.
If i went piece by piece, what would you all recommend for the turbo, manifold, intercooler, etc.??
Again, i want something streetable.
Thanks again
#12
Re: Roll call: D16 setups. Help me out! (HybridcivicLS-T)
You make some nice power with the d-series engines, it just depends on what components you use in the kit. I am building my GF's D16z6 right now for boost. I am skipping on the sleeves, and the maximum horsepower goal is 300whp. I should be able to obtain this around 18psi if i am figuring everything correctly. Of course you will need to build the engine, so here is a brief list of what her engine/kit/etc is getting:
1. D16z6 shortblock, arias 10:1 pistons, eagle rods, acl bearings, arp headstuds, oem headgasket
2. D16z6 head crower valve springs, titanium retainers, crower turbo cam, port and polish, skunk2 intake manifold, 60mm b-series throttle body
3. Turbo kit: max-rev manifold, tial 35mm hp wastegate, 57 trim t3/t40e 57 trim .48a/r, 2.5" dp, pwr 24x8x3" intercooler, custom piping, tial bov, 680cc injectors, walboro 255lph fuel pump, hondata stage 2b, 3 bar map sensor, greddy boost and egt gauges
4. Transmission: Action kevlar faced clutch, quaife lsd
With the above set-up i should be able to make 250+whp on 10psi, and 300whp+ on 18psi. If you look at the cost of b-series engine swaps, then adding a turbo kit you can have a fully built d block for turbo and a turbo kit. I am figuring around 2,000 to build the entire head and block, not including labor since i am doing everything. The tuning is free as well since i am taking care of that. You can make respectable power with d engines, but you have to have the right set-up in order to do so. 250whp out of a d-series in her ek hatch should yield high 12's in the 1/4 mile which i think is very respectable out of a daily driver car. I have always worked with b-series stuff, and this project to me is a challenge to prove everyone wrong that d-series can't make good power.
[Modified by boosted hybrid, 5:32 PM 1/30/2003]
1. D16z6 shortblock, arias 10:1 pistons, eagle rods, acl bearings, arp headstuds, oem headgasket
2. D16z6 head crower valve springs, titanium retainers, crower turbo cam, port and polish, skunk2 intake manifold, 60mm b-series throttle body
3. Turbo kit: max-rev manifold, tial 35mm hp wastegate, 57 trim t3/t40e 57 trim .48a/r, 2.5" dp, pwr 24x8x3" intercooler, custom piping, tial bov, 680cc injectors, walboro 255lph fuel pump, hondata stage 2b, 3 bar map sensor, greddy boost and egt gauges
4. Transmission: Action kevlar faced clutch, quaife lsd
With the above set-up i should be able to make 250+whp on 10psi, and 300whp+ on 18psi. If you look at the cost of b-series engine swaps, then adding a turbo kit you can have a fully built d block for turbo and a turbo kit. I am figuring around 2,000 to build the entire head and block, not including labor since i am doing everything. The tuning is free as well since i am taking care of that. You can make respectable power with d engines, but you have to have the right set-up in order to do so. 250whp out of a d-series in her ek hatch should yield high 12's in the 1/4 mile which i think is very respectable out of a daily driver car. I have always worked with b-series stuff, and this project to me is a challenge to prove everyone wrong that d-series can't make good power.
[Modified by boosted hybrid, 5:32 PM 1/30/2003]
#13
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Re: Roll call: D16 setups. Help me out! (boosted hybrid)
I dont think its that you cant make good power with a d-series motor, but to get good power a buildup is almost a must. A stock ls motor could take 300whp without even removing the head......but to do that with a d-series you have to take many more precautions.
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Re: Roll call: D16 setups. Help me out! (boosted hybrid)
Hey thanks for the help man. I wanted specifics, and i got them from you.
Honestly, I've been noticing your posts lately (no i'm not stalking you) and i feel that you do a DAMN good job of helping people out. Not that there arent many others, its just that you seem very honest/true, and dont flame people for making a mistake.
Again, thanks "boosted hybrid"
The problem is, is that i'd most likely have to have someone install most of the internals. I thought i could install the rods and pistons, but i'm not sure if thats possible? dont you need some special tools to do all that? I've got a helm's manual, but really havent looked at the internal type or work.
Peace
any other thoughts?
Honestly, I've been noticing your posts lately (no i'm not stalking you) and i feel that you do a DAMN good job of helping people out. Not that there arent many others, its just that you seem very honest/true, and dont flame people for making a mistake.
Again, thanks "boosted hybrid"
The problem is, is that i'd most likely have to have someone install most of the internals. I thought i could install the rods and pistons, but i'm not sure if thats possible? dont you need some special tools to do all that? I've got a helm's manual, but really havent looked at the internal type or work.
Peace
any other thoughts?
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Re: Roll call: D16 setups. Help me out! (ill_take_one)
the only special tools you really need are a cylinder hone and some plastigauge....I believe the helms manual tells you all of the clearances and even gives a step by step of how to do it.....its not that hard, hell I didnt even take the motor out (although I would recommend removing the motor...)
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Re: Roll call: D16 setups. Help me out! (genop)
So it is possible to leave the engine in the car, and do some internal work. I suppose it would be a lot easier if you had it on a stand i guess, but it can be done?
Where the hell can i get a cylinder hone? how much will that cost?
Thanks
Where the hell can i get a cylinder hone? how much will that cost?
Thanks
#17
Re: Roll call: D16 setups. Help me out! (ill_take_one)
To build the bottom end the right way you need to take the block to a machine shop and have it bored and honed .5mm larger. You will need to get .5mm oversized pistons which are very common when ordering aftermarket pistons. The reasoning is that the cylinder gets turned into a oval shape over time, and in order to get a perfect circle again you need to take material off the sleeves to achieve this. Its perfectly safe to do, but anything over .5mm is dangerous with forced induction due to the increased risk of cracking a sleeve.
As far as assembling the bottom end, you need to have a feeler gauge set for the rings, a ring filer, a ring compression to get the pistons into the sleeves. I never use plastic gauge. The stuff never comes off of the journals, so i use paper and mic it with a micrometer. I use layers of paper till i get to the clearance size recommended by honda (usually middle of the bearing sizing). You just install the bearings with the paper on the bottom journal facing the oil pan, tighten everything down. You rotate the crank and see if their is drag. If there is to much drag, the clearances are to tight, if the crank turns loosely the clearances are too loose, if the crank turns with a slight bit of drag you have the right clearance.
As far as making power with a d-series it can be done. Sav levorone was running 10's with a sohc turbo, so yes anything is possible. Like i said with the right combinations of parts 250whp is very easily obtainable around 10psi. I guess i will have to wait till this spring to prove everyone wrong.
As far as assembling the bottom end, you need to have a feeler gauge set for the rings, a ring filer, a ring compression to get the pistons into the sleeves. I never use plastic gauge. The stuff never comes off of the journals, so i use paper and mic it with a micrometer. I use layers of paper till i get to the clearance size recommended by honda (usually middle of the bearing sizing). You just install the bearings with the paper on the bottom journal facing the oil pan, tighten everything down. You rotate the crank and see if their is drag. If there is to much drag, the clearances are to tight, if the crank turns loosely the clearances are too loose, if the crank turns with a slight bit of drag you have the right clearance.
As far as making power with a d-series it can be done. Sav levorone was running 10's with a sohc turbo, so yes anything is possible. Like i said with the right combinations of parts 250whp is very easily obtainable around 10psi. I guess i will have to wait till this spring to prove everyone wrong.
#18
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Re: Roll call: D16 setups. Help me out! (boosted hybrid)
i have prooved that stock inetnrals can go over 220hp and hold 1bar (so far that is, boost going up some more soon )
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Re: Roll call: D16 setups. Help me out! (boosted hybrid)
Hey boosted hybrid, you wanna make a drive out to minnesota sometime?!
There's no way i'm going to be able to install the damn internals. I just dont have the tools for that.
I wish i knew someone around this area who could install my **** in a month or two.
How much would a decent place charge for installing rods/pistons, and all the necessary boring/honing??? What should i expect?
Again thanks alot man
"boosted ED9" how long have you been running your car that way?? just curious.
peace
There's no way i'm going to be able to install the damn internals. I just dont have the tools for that.
I wish i knew someone around this area who could install my **** in a month or two.
How much would a decent place charge for installing rods/pistons, and all the necessary boring/honing??? What should i expect?
Again thanks alot man
"boosted ED9" how long have you been running your car that way?? just curious.
peace
#20
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Re: Roll call: D16 setups. Help me out! (ill_take_one)
"boosted ED9" how long have you been running your car that way?? just curious.
peace
peace
#21
Re: Roll call: D16 setups. Help me out! (ill_take_one)
Whats up bud..... in the same place in the woods I am?? Milwaukee, WI here. I have a great machine shop down here, a nice heated garage.... the works. I know everyone at every shop in town.... and to get the parts you need and the machining...... not a prob. at all. If you want to set up a deal, give me an e-mail at:tevbax@yahoo.com. Is the motor out already?? We can make somethin cool happen, and trust me... its happened in my garage already. So, give me an e-mail if your interested.
Mike
Mike
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Re: Roll call: D16 setups. Help me out! (tevbax)
Whats up bud..... in the same place in the woods I am?? Milwaukee, WI here. I have a great machine shop down here, a nice heated garage.... the works. I know everyone at every shop in town.... and to get the parts you need and the machining...... not a prob. at all. If you want to set up a deal, give me an e-mail at:tevbax@yahoo.com. Is the motor out already?? We can make somethin cool happen, and trust me... its happened in my garage already. So, give me an e-mail if your interested.
Mike
Mike
Anyway, no i dont have my engine out yet, and i dont have my turbo parts either.
In about 2 months i'll be graduating from college, and that's when i'm going to start on this. Just kinda wanted to prepare ahead of time.
I'd like to start buying some turbo parts, but i'm not sure if i'm gonna do an LS swap, or just stick with the D16 yet...
Which way do you think i should go?
Peace man, i'll probably email you soon.
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