Thanks guys!

 

yeah, i really should be using OEM bearings, i do get them at cost seeings as i work at a dealership. my next race isn't until February so ive got some time to build a decent y8. anybody ever hear good or bad about joe gibbs racing oils?

 

Im not even getting into breakin... Lts just say break em in hard and they run hard.... Switch to synthetic early.

 

What size are the rod journals? I've always gone by a general rule of at least .001" of clearance per 1" of journal diameter and it's worked great. Some of the higher HP or endurance stuff I'd add another .0005" for safety. 2000hp small block V8 and the coated bearings looked like they just came out of the box.

I've known shops to try to run tighter than that and only spin bearings on the dyno, but too loose and it really doesn't seem to hurt anything. Sometimes it would drop oil pressure a little, but that's not even a big deal since that just means theres more oil flow. I think it's better to err loose than tight.

 

Eagle rods... Im running all red bearings.. Had to have .0003 taken out of one big end (as red is the thinnest bearing) and .0002 to get them all into .0017-.0019 spec. Im aware that a warm day can make that change, but I wanted everything perfect as I beat the **** out of my engines.

Last motor I got there with all pink bearings (which worked out to .0019-.0020), so this time was a lil odd. I def wouldnt want to go tighter than .0015, but its an opinion... No bigger than .020, I know some guys are going bigger and running 20-50... Im just not into it. I know its working for some guys making ALOT of power.

I just do whats been working for me.

Its not a V8... LOL

Too loose is a big deal on a motor that already has an oiling system thats being pushed at 9k (H22). As a rule of thumb, 10 PSI per 1000 RPM is whta Ive gone with liking to see... GENERALLY speaking... but I have the squirters and the BS's blocked and eliminated too so that helps a tad.


There are alot of people that know more than do I and have alot more experience building motors... But m,ine run hard get the **** beat out of them and last, so what Ive been doing seems to work, and I stick to it :O)

 

So...what size are the rod journals?

What does that matter? Same rules apply.

How is being too loose a big deal? It's not necessarily the pressure on the gauge that matters, it's the pressure on the bearing. They're not the same.

 

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1. Figure it out dude. Its irrelevant in context. I previously referenced the motor. A simple google search will do wonders if youre that interested. Regardless, I gave specs as well. THAT WORK. Once again (as previously noted) an opinion... One thats worked for me making 650-700 WHP for years.

2. Same rules do NOT apply, Theyre not the same motor.. Your statemnt (or intended implication) is indeed arguable, but im not interested.

3. RLY???? I had NOOOO idea. You missed the fundamental of the statement....I cant say it nice so ill just not say anything at all... Which is a BIG BIG step.

Im not a proffesional engine builder, however... evidently what im doing works for me. If what you do works for you... Cool, there are alot more theories and methods that work for people that arent the same. WHAT I SAID WAS IM NOT A FAN OF THE BIG CLEARANCE. Do with it what you will...

I outlined pretty specifically where mine is setup. Thats been working for years.

I do agree that loose is always better than tight, but looser than neccessary isnt a goal of mine. I run pretty sloppy piston to wall compared to most too, DEFINATELY always larger then reccomended by MFGS, to a good degree... LOL...

Like I said, just what works for me. Ionly had to **** up one motor to figure out what doesnt work... And that was due to foolowing a MFG spec. I like how things have worked out ever since. The reliability and the appearance of the motor when inspected (bearings included) make me happy in the pants.


:O)

 

I'll be nice and let you in on a little secret. What you're saying works for you is EXACTLY what I already said works for me.

As for your first point, you're wrong. The size of your rod journals is relevant. If you're running an H22, your rod journals should measure around 1.88". I said I use .001" of clearance for every 1" of journal diameter for engines I build, including V8's. That's roughly .0018-.0019" for your Honda. That same rule I use for V8's obviously applies to your Honda as well, so you're wrong again on your 2nd point.

If you want to explain your 3rd point with a little less attitude, we can discuss it in a mature manner. If not, I won't be as nice while I correct you a third time.

 

As comprehension seems to illude you, I didnt discount what you said about journal size retard. What I said was it was irrelevant in CONTEXT. We arent debating clearance/RJ size. At least---I wasnt. The user asked what clearances were being run. And he was answered... Im making ALOT more power than you are judging by your sig. Id say im doing it right (as even admitted... Using your own fomula, I didnt need one).

2nd. What works on a v8 iS NOT guaranteed to work on a Honda motor. Argue all you ****ing want.

Your third point is up to interpretation. of course bigger is better than tight. No ****. You can go too big. It can be detrimental, and it doesnt take much to get the underwhelming oil systems (def in the H/F motors) to have issues keeping up whirring around at 3-4K more rpms than they were designed for.


Either way, as mentioned... AGAIN. What ive said is all opinion based on what works for me.


I dont really give a **** otherwise.





AS i dont see progress, and could give less than a Crap about victory arguing on ****ing Hondatech...


Mwah, give daddy some sugar princess.

 

LOL, comprehension illudes me (did you mean elude?)? Why do you think I asked you what your journal size was? No one was debating anything, I simply asked you so that I could see how it compared to the rule I use, so yes the question was relevant. I even explained the reasoning for it after I posed the question, but that was obviously beyond your reading comprehension abilities, not to mention, you weren't even able to answer it except to say "Google it". The next time I ask you something, I'll try to dumb it down even further, but I can't make any guarantees...there's no crayon font on here.

I'd also recommend against you comparing how much power you've made to how much power I've made. The first engine I ever built made over 1100bhp and I've built even better since then. Sorry, but you and your 650whp ain't ****.

Obviously, not everything, but again regarding the context of the argument (ie bearing clearance), yes it does. Your results support that, but you weren't even aware of your journal diameter so you obviously weren't aware of this rule of thumb, so how can you debate as to it's applications? Consider that Clevite even recommends bearing clearances based on journal diameters.

You agree with me so why try to argue? Also, how does looser bearing clearance hurt the oiling system?

No progress? You are now aware of a concept regarding bearing clearance vs. journal diameter that you obviously didn't pay attention to before and the results you've had with your engine even supports it. If you were smart (not much hope there I must admit) you would at least take that concept into consideration instead of dismissing it on a knee jerk reaction since it supports my argument and not yours. Not to mention, since this is a public forum there are likely a few people reading all of this who may have learned something new as well, so I'd call that progress.

But of course, insults are the last resort of the stupid when they have no more to contribute, so I'd say you were actually done hours ago. I guess I can't expect much since you admit you don't give a ****. That's a good mentality when building engines.

 

Other than the bit of agro-ness, this is a pretty darn good thread -- Thanks guys! ! !

Has anyone actually been aware of problems caused by excessive bearing clearances? I was talking to a well regarded crank guy the other day, and while he advised against going too big on the clearance (much the same as in this thread), he said he actually wasn't aware of anyone ever having a problem from it.

He cited some drag racers who run about 4.5 thousandths on their rod bearings, but the journals are around 2.200". That may still be analogous to something around .004-.0042 for a 1.88x" journal.

Is extralargenog really banned? I hope not!

 

I've never seen an issue because of too much clearance other than low oil pressure. I'm sure there could be issues when you get crazy big, but it seems like an engine can tolerate a looser bearing rather than a tighter one.

The above graph is taken from testing done by Callies. As you can see, the slope of the curve is steeper as you get tighter and flatter as you get looser. Whatever problems occur as a result of too much clearance probably aren't encountered since it seems to take a lot more to make it happen than if you are too tight.

You missed how this argument ended. That's probably why he got banned.

 

Thanks for that graph -- VERY interesting! ! !

 

damm someone know what they are talking about you are almost word to word with every thing ive heard machinist say.. kudos''

 

The only problem with any of that is that the ZDDP in Rotella has been dramatically reduced since it gained its popularity. The only thing I've seen lately that has a lot of it is Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil. I'm sure there are plenty of others, I just don't happen to be aware of what they are.

A lot of great info in this thread though!