mar778c

iTrader: (1)

I had always been interested in building a turbo charger from scratch so I decided to give it shot.

The objectives of the turbo were as follows:

1) reach 20 psi before 6000 rpm
2) 50+ lbs/min capable
3) T3/T4 journal bearing format

As a basis for the design, I selected the 60-1 and 5831 turbos, respectively.

Since both employ the T31 as the turbine shaft and wheel, I selected the same turbine shaft. For the compressor wheel, I selected the Pure Turbos 59 mm 11 blade billet. I really had not seen many dynos of their product but after a couple of conversations, I decide to give them a try. As for the other components, the exhaust housing is an old Turbonetics stage III 0.63 A/R. The compressor cover is a 4" inlet/2.5 " exhaust TO4S style 0.7 A/R, cut to meet the blade profile.

A pic of the cartridge


The test mule for this build is a 91 Honda civic.

The set-up:

Drivetrain-
Block- B16a
B16a crank
Eagle rods
81.5 mm RS CP pistons (PTW 0.004")
OEM main bearings (bearing clearance 0.0018")
ACL rod bearings (bearing clearance 0.0018")
Head- GSR, stock port, stock valves (rebuilt)
VT- Supertech springs H1002D, and 2002 rsx type-s retainers
Cams- GSR
Intake manifold- Blox (?)
TB- Professional Products 68 mm
Ignition- Stock Dizzy, wires, and NGK 8's
Fuel Delivery- Walbro 255 and ID1000
EMS- OBD-1 converison, chipped P28, neptune'd
Trans- S4C, cable to hydro bracket, and CC stg 4 clutch

Turbocharger-
Turbo- Homemade
Manifold- Mini-ramhorn
Wastegate- Tial 38 mm
Oiling-
GE Vtec sandwich plate
-4AN stainless braid and 0.065" restrictor (feed side)
-10AN stainless braid (return side)
Hotside charge piping- 2.5" Aluminum piping
Coldside charge piping - 3.0" Aluminum piping
Intercooler- Precision 600 Hp
BOV- Tial 50 mm
Map sensor - GM 3 bar
Downpipe- 3.0" stainless steel
Exhaust- 3.0" stainless steel

The results:



409whp@9000 259 ft-lbs@6418

Conclusions:
Well, I did not quite meet my objectives. (I guess I had better not quit my day job)

But on a lighter note, 400+ whp is a lot of fun in a 2100 lbs car.

Thanks to my tuner and friend d-rob for unyielding support and criticism.
Thanks to my friend Natural Aspirations for the reality checks.
Thanks to Pure Turbos for the wheel and the assistance.

bigmikeinteg

Hey it is good that you tried to do this on your own....However I was wondering a couple things...
1: What boost pressure did you use to get to 409whp
2: What RPM did you see this boost at?
3: Don't you think that the 3"charge piping may be a bit too large and may also be causing a bit of lag?

Hey either way you achieved some good things you built your own turbo (that you wanted to do) and you also got a super fun ride....
Congrats

95skunkedgsr

Glad to see your still at it mar

95skunkedgsr

Followed most of your builds on here and hondabuild

LightningTeg

I think you would have met your goals with a split blade design. The 11 blade wheels like the new GTX turbos are designed for higher boost pressures / turbo speeds (correct me if I'm wrong).

mar778c

iTrader: (1)

1) it drifted up to 23 psi.
2) 8000+
3) I don't think the 3" is much of a problem

Thank you

mar778c

iTrader: (1)

I plan to try a 6+6 design next.


Yes, they typically are but I've seen where the GT vs GTX on the same motor did not produce more power. However, the GTX did spool faster which is what I was looking for.

ls joker

nice job

D-Rob

Marcell,

You know I am always here to provide you with criticism.

Runnerdown

Interesting, judging by the torque it would seem the boost holds relatively steady but apparently it does not. 8000 rpm to reach 20 psi?

mar778c

iTrader: (1)

Here are plots of the whp and torque at various levels of boost.



Boost Plot



The boost does creep a 1.5 lbs or more over the rpm range.

mar778c

iTrader: (1)

Yes, this turbine wheel struggles up top. A new revision is coming with a bigger turbine wheel.

twkdCD595

I might of missed it, what is your static compression on this motor?

Personally I give you a big for venturing out to do this on your own. Pretty cool in my opinion although you did not see the results you wanted right out of the box.

NoLimitMotorsport

iTrader: (1)

very ambitious! looking forward to seeing the results with the new compressor wheel :D

mar778c

iTrader: (1)

The static CR is 10.5.

Thanks for the words of support.

92egkirt

Quick question about your Professional Products TB, Did you have any problems with it? I recently bought one. is there any modifications I should do to the Throttle body?

Garage 808 Hatch

A 1.8 would have netted you the results you wanted. I have a 10.5:1 LSvtec with a 3431. Makes over 20 before 6k. Kinda weird with a turbosmart dual stage boost controller, it spikes to 21psi, and fall to 17psi at peak hp, makes 397/312 on a 224x.

Natural Aspirations

1.8L has greater "momentum"

mar778c

iTrader: (1)

I had no problems with it.


None were req'd. I bought mine maybe 5 years ago.

mar778c

iTrader: (1)

I think my problem is the turbine wheel lacks the necessary energy to spin the compressor wheel any faster. See calc below.



The calculation is a bit crude but it is consistent in application. What I see from the calc and the graph is 1 full point of additional boost not making a measureable change in engine output. Whereas compressor wheel limitations are seen when the boost peaks then falls with increasing rpm.

The plot (below) show the CFM vs Pr, an inverted compressor map.

Garage 808 Hatch

possibly. im looking at my dyno now. in 3rd gear the 3431 made 20psi at 5800rpm (probably faster if a higher target boost was set) and in 4th in broke 20psi at 5000. and this was on a dynojet 224x no load control

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

Still has a very narrow power band

And if the turbo is creeping all the way to redline then you have an issue

It could be

Boost leak
Poor boost control
Boost controller issue (solenoid, how aggressive the boost map is tuned or lack thereof. If a manual controller then it's broken
Poor wastegate placement
Wastegate not properly sized
Wrong spring in wastegate
Turbine wheel/housing improperly sized/too small

There's a lot more it could be and you need to double check everything and start eliminating things off my list. That turbo should spool much quicker and have a much broader powsr band

mar778c

iTrader: (1)

*Same manifold/DP/dump tube/tuner as previous set-up with no issues
The only difference is the turbo. The H1C did not have a problem. I don't think the set-up is the problem.
The switch to the 71mm turbine is prompted by the results for the H1C and one of theshodan turbos.

Westrock2000

Technical question, how does the impeller actually connect? Is the shaft splined or keyed in some way or is it pressed on?

Natural Aspirations

Turbine is part of the shaft
Compressor is held in place by compression (nut) on a tapered shaft.