Mr.Hankey

Has anyone built a motor with an obd2 ecu and didnt tune it afterwards (use the stock maps to break it in). The build has different rods/pistons/bore/rings/clutch ect. The compression after the build is .5:1 higher. The turbo isnt in yet, it will be in after the car is broken in.

0morgan@synapse motorsport

break it in on the dyno whiles its getting tuned. dont try to run it like that. a proper tune should be first concern on any build not getting it broken in

Mr.Hankey

He told me to break it in on the road for 1k with the stock ecu in. Then after i break it in, i should put both the turbo and AEM EMS in the car and then tune it on a dyno.

Mr.Hankey

Well, the injectors are stock, and he told me to go 3-4k rpms maybe get on it a couple times...just break it in, then throw it on the dyno to tune it. His big thing is the wants a garunteed start, and he thinks it'll be safer then to just put in on the dyno.

Do you think injectors will matter when im not revving it past stock?

0morgan@synapse motorsport

first off your running a higher c/r than stock and a bigger bore that is going to throw off the tune right there. i have a fully built engine top to bottom, no break in, started it let it idle for a bit. changed the oil. threw it on the dyno.

G2K

I would never suggest to anyone that they break in there car without being tuned, let alone on a stock ecu. The best method is to start the motor, and let it run, check for leaks. After that change the oil and bring it directly to a dyno to get it tuned. You never want to risk a fully built motor getting cylinder wash, or running lean and expanding the pistons. No sense to me to build something and ruin it in a matter of minutes.

Also alot of tuners don't want to tune cars right away, cause they're afraid of the car leaking fluids all over the dyno. Plus if they don't know who built the motor, sometimes they are worried about it blowing up, and they don't want to be held responsible for installation error.

agrn93ls

earl or someone reputable once wrote that it should be tuned for immediately. like towed to the dyno and tuned there. i know your thinkin it should run first. just PM tony1 or earl. they know what they talking about. or a reputable tuner. if your bore and compression etc... have changed from stock then the AFR will too.......

DJ_SaNdOz

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by agrn93ls &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">earl or someone reputable once wrote that it should be tuned for immediately. like towed to the dyno and tuned there. i know your thinkin it should run first. just PM tony1 or earl. they know what they talking about. or a reputable tuner. if your bore and compression etc... have changed from stock then the AFR will too.......</TD></TR></TABLE>

Great suggestions, but Earl is no more.....RIP Earl

dr_latino999

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DJ_SaNdOz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Great suggestions, but Earl is no more.....RIP Earl</TD></TR></TABLE> It was only a matter of time before someone suggested to another that they talked to Earl....

dr_latino999

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread/1828398

Mr.Hankey

im not sure what to do at this point. i mean, im not sure if my builder is trying to save money on not getting it tuned, and breaking it in with the stock ecu or what. I dont want to break ****, but hes telling me thats how he breaks in all of his engines and they last years. But i just have the feeling like it should be tuned then broken in...im going to give some aem cert. shops a few calls and see what they recommend

doood

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr.Hankey &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">im not sure what to do at this point. i mean, im not sure if my builder is trying to save money on not getting it tuned, and breaking it in with the stock ecu or what. I dont want to break ****, but hes telling me thats how he breaks in all of his engines and they last years. But i just have the feeling like it should be tuned then broken in...im going to give some aem cert. shops a few calls and see what they recommend</TD></TR></TABLE>

who is this you're talking about so i can stay away from them?

The Destroyer

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr Wonderfull &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Tune it on the dyno. Break it in on the dyno (or have it street tuned), Beat it on the dyno (make sure rings are seated completely), Change the oil and filter, cut the old filter open and have a look to see if there are any shavings in it, Enjoy.

Make sure to make the first oil change soon, like within 1000 miles or so. Cut the filter open and make sure all looks good, in addition: keep a watchfull eye on oil pressure and temp.

PS( make sure you do not even turn the ****** over without your tuner there... Tow it to him if you need to).</TD></TR></TABLE>

I was under the impression you should change the oil after a few heat cycles of idling. The go on to tune/seat rings, change oil again, and then progressively start chaning the oil in higher increments. Some one also suggested that a magnetic drain plug is an important tool for break ins because it collects all the debri.

0morgan@synapse motorsport

i dont think any competant tuner will tell u to break in a fully built engine on a stock ecu. maybe a base map but not a stock ecu.

and as u have seen almost everyone here has said to break it in on the dyno. its obvious u questioned the legitimacy of this yourself, hence the thread....

Mr.Hankey

okay, heres what i did. I called around to AEM EMS certified tuners and they said pretty much the same thing. 1) My builder is right and wrong about his approach to tuning the car. First, wrong because my a/f ratio might be off by having different parts in the engine and might be rich or lean. But hes right because it might not be rich or lean. They all told me to get a a/f gauge and monitor it and if it stay in between 11-14 then im okay to break in the motor with the stock ecu and everything will be fine. They all told me that it would be faster to put everything in the engine and then tune it and break it in at the same time, but doing it the way i am will be okay too if the ratios are in check. So im going to get a wideband and see if my ratios are correct when i turn on my engine this thurs/friday. If they are okay im going to break it in like my builder recommended.

And to hybrid, stfu.


Modified by Mr.Hankey at 2:37 AM 12/6/2006

The Destroyer

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr.Hankey &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">okay, heres what i did. I called around to AEM EMS certified tuners and they said pretty much the same thing. 1) My builder is right and wrong about his approach to tuning the car. First, wrong because my a/f ratio might be off by having different parts in the engine and might be rich or lean. But hes right because it might not be rich or lean. They all told me to get a a/f gauge and monitor it and if it stay in between 11-14 then im okay to break in the motor with the stock ecu and everything will be fine. They all told me that it would be faster to put everything in the engine and then tune it and break it in at the same time, but doing it the way i am will be okay too if the ratios are in check. So im going to get a wideband and see if my ratios are correct when i turn on my engine this thurs/friday. If they are okay im going to break it in like my builder recommended.

And to hybrid, stfu.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Sounds good, I take it you are breaking it in NA? Anyways report back with results.

0morgan@synapse motorsport

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr.Hankey &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">okay, heres what i did. I called around to AEM EMS certified tuners and they said pretty much the same thing. 1) My builder is right and wrong about his approach to tuning the car. First, wrong because my a/f ratio might be off by having different parts in the engine and might be rich or lean. But hes right because it might not be rich or lean. They all told me to get a a/f gauge and monitor it and if it stay in between 11-14 then im okay to break in the motor with the stock ecu and everything will be fine. They all told me that it would be faster to put everything in the engine and then tune it and break it in at the same time, but doing it the way i am will be okay too if the ratios are in check. So im going to get a wideband and see if my ratios are correct when i turn on my engine this thurs/friday. If they are okay im going to break it in like my builder recommended.

And to hybrid, stfu.</TD></TR></TABLE>

hey np buddy, glad u came on here looking for help....dont ask a question, get an answer and then say stfu. im here trying to help u out, and keep u from destoying your engine. keep in mind everyone in this thread has agreed with me.

Mr.Hankey

i just felt like you were being an *** hybrid, sorry if i took that wrong. But like you said, everyone on this thread has agreed with you, but none of them are certified to tune anything. if they were i wouldve taken their advice, but aem certified tuners CA to MI told me pretty much the same thing so id rather believe someone that is competent to do the job over you. The real reason i posted this is because I wanted a aem certified tuner to post his opinion of the subject, but that didnt happen.

0morgan@synapse motorsport

im not a certified aem tuner but i did sleep at a holiday inn express last night. haha

i got my car tuned by a certified AEM tuner, and built by the late earl laskey as said above. im just passing on to you the information i have learned from these and many other resources. not trying to hate on you or your tuner.

BoostedEG6

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hybrdthry911 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i dont think any competant tuner will tell u to break in a fully built engine on a stock ecu. maybe a base map but not a stock ecu.</TD></TR></TABLE>

If they are a competent tuner they would NEVER tell you to break in a new motor on a base map.....

If my tuner told me to do that I would go the other way and never recommend them to anyone

JDogg

if the rings dont seat in the first 30 sec of the motor running they arent going to..... so break in is for wusses

Mase

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hybrdthry911 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i dont think any competant tuner will tell u to break in a fully built engine on a stock ecu. maybe a base map but not a stock ecu.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well actually, I disagree with you.

Stock ecu and stock injectors work quite well. Sometimes its really difficult to get a basemap dead on. IE. 1000cc injectors / aeromotive fuel pump / this motor/those cams/that head. etc etc. The chance of being off a few % will make the car run much worse than a couple % off stock ecu and injectors.

if you arent putting the car under any load, it can run lean and it wont hurt the engine. however, if you're running too rich, especially on a fresh motor, its not going to be good for the rings.


I always recommend breaking in motors. especially when it comes to the bearings, the rings seal faster. the rings will seat quick, but they dont completely seal right away.

IMO, the absolute best way is for the tuner to be there for the initial start up, tune it for partial throttle right away, then break it in a couple hundred miles before you boost the **** out of it. Problem is, this doesnt happen very often.

RevTek 6

Im gonna say break it in while tuning on the dyno. Tuning is everything.

blaze the chemi

I can give an example but this topic has been covered several times.

I rebuilt my motor last year (B16A) and had crower rods (stock length) with SRP pistons 9.9:1 CR (10.2 is stock) w/ the ring set provided and ACL bearings for the rods. I glazed the cylinders with a hone after finding they were all within limits. Always put a liberal amount of assembly lube when building.

After the build I started her up just to make sure everything would be ready for the dyno session. I had a squeaky belt, but I didn't make sure my alternator was tightened all the way. Easy fix Some smoke for about 10 minutes but then went away (probably the assembly lube burning off)

Scheduled the dyno sessions and had the car TOWED to the place. Luckily Ed Senf is only 10 minutes away

He broke it in on the dyno. Easy tune at first to make sure it would handle it and ended up at 10 psi (stock MAP) by the end of the session.

Now I am 12-13K miles on the rebuilt motor with the same spark plug and boost to 12-15 psi now (3 bar GM MAP) and daily drive it.

Just my experience and would do it again if/when I have to rebuild my motor.

Mr.Hankey

i hear what you guys are saying, im by no means saying anyone is wrong. I talked to more then one aem certified tuner they all told me that both ways are ok if you have a wideband for monitoring your a/f. They all said there was some break in period. On the dyno or not, it still cant be driven really hard on a fresh build with f/i off the dyno or it wont last very long. Like i said before, if a few certified tuners tell me to do the same thing im going to do what they say, and theyre all saying there is at least some breakin period that you cant drive it hard (over 4krpms).


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mase &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

IMO, the absolute best way is for the tuner to be there for the initial start up, tune it for partial throttle right away, then break it in a couple hundred miles before you boost the **** out of it. Problem is, this doesnt happen very </TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks mase, thats exactly what my builder is doing for me. Im glad that someone actually tunes cars for a living commented on this thread.



Modified by Mr.Hankey at 7:12 PM 12/6/2006