I realize they have thin sleeves. And people say no more than 10-12 psi which equates to no more than 100-160 additional whp... so approx. 280ish WHP? Am I correct in these assumptions?

How much stress can the pistons/rods take? (Assuming I reinforced the sleeves with one of the various options available)

 

I want to know too.

 

Boost is irrelevant, it's horsepower that cracks him

Why would you sleeve the motor but put in stock rods and pistons? That's like wearing a condom and cutting the top off, it costs you money but ain't gonna do **** to help you in the long run.

 

tuning

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b16sedan &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Boost is irrelevant, it's horsepower that cracks him

Why would you sleeve the motor but put in stock rods and pistons? That's like wearing a condom and cutting the top off, it costs you money but ain't gonna do **** to help you in the long run.</TD></TR></TABLE>

i know its WHP... hence why I said approx 280ish WHP at 10-12 psi.

Im looking for the most cost effective way to reach 300+whp; and if I don't have to upgrade the internals, then I won't.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rod. &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">tuning</TD></TR></TABLE>

i could have a PERFECT tune for 450whp, but the internals might not like it.... tuning is important, i do agree, im not a noob, but the build is just as important.

 

The stock B20 limits are just like any other motor. People say the sleeves suck, while they are thinner, this doesnt magically make them unusable and opt for a sleeving. People have pushed the limits of the B20 sleeves, people have tired and people have failed and suceeded. It boils down to tunning/ operating conditions and maintance. Ive seen and read where people push 400whp with the stock sleeves while running better pistions and rods. Ive also seen people run the stock bottem end up to 8800rpm cause thats where their Jun IIIs stopped making power. Ive also seen setups were the sleeves cracked out of the blue with no reason, (stock). I love my B20, and Im now more in love with it now that its boosted, Im going to push the limits of this motor, Im shooting for over 300hp. B20turbohic made close to 300hp with the same setup.


This is just my opinion based on reading and researching about this motor since 2001.

Good luck and PM with any questions.

Blaze

 

So basically its like all other common Honda motors (excluding d15), and can handle approx. 270-300whp on stock internals.

 

have seen a 400+hp completly stock bottom end B-18C5. the tune is key!

 

Yup made 301 whp and 298 wtq for 1.5 years till I just built a motor.. Tune

Now its built and Im shooting for 550-600 NO VTEC O MY

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b20turboic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yup made 301 whp and 298 wtq for 1.5 years till I just built a motor.. Tune

Now its built and Im shooting for 550-600 NO VTEC O MY </TD></TR></TABLE>

Just a question...not flaming

Why wouldn't you not put a Vtec head if every thing is built?

 

Vtec makes high HP number which is great if all you want is Dyno Queen or have calculated everything out to make the car run good. Vtec heads flow 10000 times better than non-vtec heads. So in all motor it matters but when you have a turbo that flows 80 pounds per min. it flows 80 psi/min. The head also takes away what makes a fast track car. TORQUE.. LS heads kill vtec heads in torque which in reality ... is what the actual power the motor makes. HP is a floating number it is nothing, its just a formula torque * rpm / a given factor. I happen to not know the factor but fast drag cars all have torque. V8's can have 600 wtq and 400 hp and run 8's-9's with the right setup. Look at a Toyota supra for example 1122 whp or whatever haha and they mostly run 10's. 10's may seem fast but for all that money it is wasted. End of story my car was fast without it on stock motor why jump onto the *** wagon just to be unhappy with the outcome. In my book vtec is ok but if I wanted it I would have gotten a GSR or something.

Ps : I dont run street tires either so I still have traction and Torque

 

So basically what b20turboic is saying is that a deisel will beat almost anything on the street!!! Damn, Im going to get me a deisel, forget VTEC!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b20turboic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Vtec makes high HP number which is great if all you want is Dyno Queen or have calculated everything out to make the car run good. Vtec heads flow 10000 times better than non-vtec heads. So in all motor it matters but when you have a turbo that flows 80 pounds per min. it flows 80 psi/min. The head also takes away what makes a fast track car. TORQUE.. LS heads kill vtec heads in torque which in reality ... is what the actual power the motor makes. HP is a floating number it is nothing, its just a formula torque * rpm / a given factor. I happen to not know the factor but fast drag cars all have torque. V8's can have 600 wtq and 400 hp and run 8's-9's with the right setup. Look at a Toyota supra for example 1122 whp or whatever haha and they mostly run 10's. 10's may seem fast but for all that money it is wasted. End of story my car was fast without it on stock motor why jump onto the *** wagon just to be unhappy with the outcome. In my book vtec is ok but if I wanted it I would have gotten a GSR or something.

Ps : I dont run street tires either so I still have traction and Torque </TD></TR></TABLE>

This is a stupid statement. VTEC motors on boost make MUCH more torque than a non VTEC head. And WTF is '80 psi/min'? V8s have a totally opposite torque curve (mountain?) when compared to a 4 cylinder, so you can't just compare raw HP and TQ #s. Sorry to say I don't have a ******* dyno queen and I promise you it makes more torque than an LS motor with the exact same setup. I'm not going to get into a flame war over this, but don't say VTEC is useless because you obviously have no clue.

 

80 psi/min . Is a turbo flow rate *** nut. As in the turbo flows 80 pounds a min. And id like to see you make 500 wtq without having 800 whp. HAHAHAHAHAHA vtec isnt worthless but you dont know **** so shove it. I can make 500 whp and 450 wtq. If a vtec makes 500 whp it will most likely do 300 wtq or so. So do some research and think before your garbage can mouth opens again.

So you are also saying hmm a B16a on boost will make 500whp and 500 wtq ? Damn Vtec is the best thing ever then. The motor needs stroke and bore to produce more torque. VTEC Doesnt just MAKE torque

HAVE A NICE DAY

And yes I know a few people with 10-11 second Cummins Turbo trucks so yes it will beat you


Modified by b20turboic at 2:59 PM 7/6/2005

 

Well look at it like this.. 9 - 10 second talons or eclipses. Have almost as much torque as hp. This give great actual power band. Doesnt let the car bog down and have to be IN vtec to have power. But you can make a car fast without it. Its just easier with vtec. So if you all want easy than go for it. Im talking off of drag racing each type of car and I like non-vtec motors better. So if you dont o well if I do o well. Flame ON

 

All those guys running hot rod must be cursing themselves for spending lots of money in head research instead of running a stock non-vtec head. Damnit!

The fact of the matter is torque can easily be made through gearing, which is why you use gearing in the first place. I don't give a **** how much torque an LS or B20 will make at 650 WHP, the VTEC motor which can squeeze out 600+ WHP for say 3500 RPM's will be way faster than the non-vtec motor which can squeeze out 600+ WHP for maybe 1000 RPM's.

And no, *** nut, it's not PSI a minute. It's pounds per minute of flow, pounds as in a volume/mass of air, not a pressure like PSI. Try doing some research and think before your garbage can mouth opens again.

 

hmm right my motor tachs just as high as yours

And 2 posts up I stated pounds per min.


Typed PSI/min due to being busy

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chip &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">All those guys running hot rod must be cursing themselves for spending lots of money in head research instead of running a stock non-vtec head. Damnit!

The fact of the matter is torque can easily be made through gearing, which is why you use gearing in the first place. I don't give a **** how much torque an LS or B20 will make at 650 WHP, the VTEC motor which can squeeze out 600+ WHP for say 3500 RPM's will be way faster than the non-vtec motor which can squeeze out 600+ WHP for maybe 1000 RPM's.

And no, *** nut, it's not PSI a minute. It's pounds per minute of flow, pounds as in a volume/mass of air, not a pressure like PSI. Try doing some research and think before your garbage can mouth opens again.</TD></TR></TABLE>




*runs to thorw my VTEC head away*

 

Damn time you did hahahaha

Wooo Chips my dog

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b20turboic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">hmm right my motor tachs just as high as yours

And 2 posts up I stated pounds per min.


Typed PSI/min due to being busy</TD></TR></TABLE>

If your motor "Tachs" as high as mine, that means you've ported it to flow better with bigger ports and put bigger cams in it. Basically trying to make it the same as the VTEC head, only using a single cam profile.

 

DING DING DING we have a winner

Kind of like why people run Vtec Killer cams ... One profile for all the power... Idle suffers but if you would stop flaming I stated mine is a Drag Car.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b20turboic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">DING DING DING we have a winner

Kind of like why people run Vtec Killer cams ... One profile for all the power... Idle suffers but if you would stop flaming I stated mine is a Drag Car. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Quit thinking PEAK and start thinking AREA UNDER THE CURVE. This is the whole point of the VTEC system. Sure they will make the same peak power with some work to an LS head, but a VTED head will be on better cam profiles @ lower RPMs then both the big-cammed LS and the VTEC car are on the same huge lobes for the top end. I still don't see whats so awesome about an LS head.....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b20turboic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">DING DING DING we have a winner

Kind of like why people run Vtec Killer cams ... One profile for all the power... Idle suffers but if you would stop flaming I stated mine is a Drag Car. </TD></TR></TABLE>

People run Vtec killer's to eliminate valvetrain weight while still keeping the superior VTEC head casting. It has nothing to do with the fact that vtec itself kills torque and power, or whatever rediculous theory you seem to have going on here.

So, to summarize.
-An LS motor makes more torque at X WHP because they use smaller cam profiles and the head doesn't flow nearly as well. This means that for that LS to hit 400 WHP it might take 6 psi more boost from the same setup only with a GSR head. More boost means more air flow in the middle RPM range which means more torque. Instead of using the better flowing VTEC head and cam profiles to carry torque and therefore power to higher RPM's, the non vtec head uses greater amounts of boost.

-A VTEC head is a better platform for drag racing, the LMA's and such allow it to rev much higher than an LS head, even when the LS is better assembled. An LS head isn't going to live at 11000 RPM's with it's rocker assemblies. An ITR head will, no problem.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b20turboic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
And yes I know a few people with 10-11 second Cummins Turbo trucks so yes it will beat you
Modified by b20turboic at 2:59 PM 7/6/2005</TD></TR></TABLE>

So why dont you just go deisel? Now you're really confusing me. You want an LS head over a VTEC head when you can just go deisel. Man dude, just make up your mind!