Question about Water Meth Injection
12-28-2015, 07:09 AM
#1
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Question about Water Meth Injection
so I have been doing a bit of reading on water meth and wanted to get see what you guys recommend on using.
Water
Methanol
Windshield Wiper Fluid
Water & Methanol Mix
I have a friend that is just using distilled water on his V dub and his been using it for years with good success.
I asked him why he likes using just water and he said that is more convenient since you can find water anywhere compared to Methanol, Windshield, etc...
I know if I use water & meth I can get more hp but since ill be running a B20 turbo I am more concerned on keeping the cylinder walls cool more than gaining extra hp.
how does tuning apply here if I wanted to just use water vs. methanol? I heard bad stories of people who were tuned with methanol and ran out of methanol and the engine ran lean and got messed up.
What do you guys suggest I use?
Water
Methanol
Windshield Wiper Fluid
Water & Methanol Mix
I have a friend that is just using distilled water on his V dub and his been using it for years with good success.
I asked him why he likes using just water and he said that is more convenient since you can find water anywhere compared to Methanol, Windshield, etc...
I know if I use water & meth I can get more hp but since ill be running a B20 turbo I am more concerned on keeping the cylinder walls cool more than gaining extra hp.
how does tuning apply here if I wanted to just use water vs. methanol? I heard bad stories of people who were tuned with methanol and ran out of methanol and the engine ran lean and got messed up.
What do you guys suggest I use?
12-28-2015, 11:29 AM
#3
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Re: Question about Water Meth Injection
You still need distilled water, added octane from meth helps against knock too which reduces temps.
Neptune and hondata support meth
Neptune and hondata support meth
12-28-2015, 01:15 PM
#4
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Re: Question about Water Meth Injection
Straight water produces the highest drops in IATs
Methanol is used to increase detonation threshold via increasing effective fuel octane rating.
50/50 water/meth during testing typically shows higher, more consistent drops in IAT compared to running a higher amount of methanol.
Injection rate and timing also impacts performance. 99% of the people I see using water/meth injection are running severely excessive injection rates and poor injection timing with little understanding to how or why these factors are important.
Methanol is used to increase detonation threshold via increasing effective fuel octane rating.
50/50 water/meth during testing typically shows higher, more consistent drops in IAT compared to running a higher amount of methanol.
Injection rate and timing also impacts performance. 99% of the people I see using water/meth injection are running severely excessive injection rates and poor injection timing with little understanding to how or why these factors are important.
12-28-2015, 01:33 PM
#6
12-28-2015, 02:08 PM
#7
Re: Question about Water Meth Injection
Sure but you tend to specify in a lot of posts that Hondata is junk when it has been proven over and over again to be an effective EMS in 8 second Hondas. However if I were to choose the best EMS you can buy it would be Motec hands down no other EMS can compare.
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12-28-2015, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by AZ_CIVIC
Sure but you tend to specify in a lot of posts that Hondata is junk when it has been proven over and over again to be an effective EMS in 8 second Hondas. However if I were to choose the best EMS you can buy it would be Motec hands down no other EMS can compare.
12-28-2015, 02:41 PM
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Re: Question about Water Meth Injection
MoTec is great but the best EMS hands down is Pectel. However even the most basic ecu is very very expensive
12-28-2015, 03:00 PM
#11
Re: Question about Water Meth Injection
I haven't heard too much about Pectel but I have heard more of the Evo and Ford Focus guys use those more than the Honda guys. Maybe I am wrong but most people who can afford to spend on an Ecu for a Honda use Motec. Maybe this year I will be switching over to the gold box if I am lucky LOL.
12-28-2015, 03:31 PM
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12-28-2015, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by AZ_CIVIC
Yet one of the best turbos on the market is the Precision BB 7285. Guys are running low 8's on that turbo right now.
I dont like hondata because ive moved to aem and then went back and its like playing with a nintendo and a ps4
12-28-2015, 04:49 PM
#14
Re: Question about Water Meth Injection
Hey to each their own you know, my tuner tunes both Motec and Hondata. He's tuned 8 second cars on Hondata but of course runs Motec on his personal stuff and suggests any serious competitor to run Motec. However Hondata is still a great product for what it is, are there better EMS systems, yes but Hondata has continued to improve and like I said fast cars still run them.
12-28-2015, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by AZ_CIVIC
Hey to each their own you know, my tuner tunes both Motec and Hondata. He's tuned 8 second cars on Hondata but of course runs Motec on his personal stuff and suggests any serious competitor to run Motec. However Hondata is still a great product for what it is, are there better EMS systems, yes but Hondata has continued to improve and like I said fast cars still run them.
Does he like aem at all? Specifically the v2 3.2 firmware
Or is it just all the hondata nut riders he never gets a chance to tune it?
12-28-2015, 05:27 PM
#16
Re: Question about Water Meth Injection
Not many people use AEM, here anyway, when he does get a call for an AEM tune, he turns them down and sends them to another tuner.
I don't think he cares much for AEM at all. He spends most of his time with his CNC business and when he feels like tuning it's either Hondata or Motec.
I don't think he cares much for AEM at all. He spends most of his time with his CNC business and when he feels like tuning it's either Hondata or Motec.
12-28-2015, 05:37 PM
#17
Re: Question about Water Meth Injection
Not a lot of Hondata here. They either do AEM, Megasquirt III, Motec, or my personal favorite, Haltech.
The reason is because there are too many inconsistent "fake" components out there that spoil it for Hondata users. I never did like ECU based systems.. So, for once, I agree with Turbohatchy.. I had Hondata in 2004, and will never use one again.
The reason is because there are too many inconsistent "fake" components out there that spoil it for Hondata users. I never did like ECU based systems.. So, for once, I agree with Turbohatchy.. I had Hondata in 2004, and will never use one again.
12-28-2015, 06:32 PM
#18
Re: Question about Water Meth Injection
Not a lot of Hondata here. They either do AEM, Megasquirt III, Motec, or my personal favorite, Haltech.
The reason is because there are too many inconsistent "fake" components out there that spoil it for Hondata users. I never did like ECU based systems.. So, for once, I agree with Turbohatchy.. I had Hondata in 2004, and will never use one again.
The reason is because there are too many inconsistent "fake" components out there that spoil it for Hondata users. I never did like ECU based systems.. So, for once, I agree with Turbohatchy.. I had Hondata in 2004, and will never use one again.
12-29-2015, 04:45 AM
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Re: Question about Water Meth Injection
Seriously guys, explain to me how we went from talking about water meth to talking about the specs of every EMS ever made LOL
12-29-2015, 06:11 AM
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Originally Posted by AZ_CIVIC
I hear you, I ran AEM V1 in 2005 and it was junk and will never use their product again. Next stop for me is Motec.
I think most of it was user error.
12-29-2015, 06:51 PM
#22
Re: Question about Water Meth Injection
You can use windshield fluids, (but it is very weak), mineral spirits, (much stronger and larger containers are cheaper) but some of the best stuff with the highest concentration of isopropanol is HEET gas-drier.. best stuff, but expensive since it's not sold in large quantities.
But it's how you tune with it that's important. Keep with the same mixture content, (meaning make consistent batches) and rock&roll to the tuner..
12-30-2015, 06:14 PM
#23
Premium Member
Re: Question about Water Meth Injection
I buy methanol in 5 gallon pails from the local race shop and mix it myself 50/50 with distilled water. If you go this route, make sure you get PURE methanol. You do not want or need any additives in it and most places will try to sell it to you.
Run a failsafe like previously stated. Even with a good kit you can still have issues. My AEM kit would cut out randomly at times because of a loose wire and the boost safe feature would switch to my pump gas maps in Neptune every time and save the motor.
50/50 is supposed to be about the "best" mixture. As TheShodan said, just keep the mixture consistent. You can go more or less...but I wouldn't run too much methanol. It's hard on the system components and it is very flammable. It also burns with a nearly invisible flame too which is pretty scary when you think about it. Another thing to note when handling pure methanol is take extra care not to get it on your skin or in your eyes. You may not feel the effects right away but if you get enough on you, you can go blind permanently along with a host of other terrible things. Pay attention to the warning labels.
If you really want to get crazy with it you can add small amounts of nitromethane to the water/methanol system for noticeable horsepower/torque gains. It's an oxidized fuel so it sort of acts like a small shot of nitrous when injected with the water/methanol. It needs an emulsifier added into it to keep it spread evenly throughout though, so don't go to your local RC car store and pick up some. You need it premixed. Snow Performance sells small bottles of it IIRC.
The stuff is great if you don't have any other options for alternative fueling like E85. I was able to increase boost from 18 to 25psi, and add 6 degrees of timing on an 11:1 F22 after switching to pump + water/meth. Made enough torque to bend a standard Arias wrist pin and sheer the #4 sleeve clean in half.
Run a failsafe like previously stated. Even with a good kit you can still have issues. My AEM kit would cut out randomly at times because of a loose wire and the boost safe feature would switch to my pump gas maps in Neptune every time and save the motor.
50/50 is supposed to be about the "best" mixture. As TheShodan said, just keep the mixture consistent. You can go more or less...but I wouldn't run too much methanol. It's hard on the system components and it is very flammable. It also burns with a nearly invisible flame too which is pretty scary when you think about it. Another thing to note when handling pure methanol is take extra care not to get it on your skin or in your eyes. You may not feel the effects right away but if you get enough on you, you can go blind permanently along with a host of other terrible things. Pay attention to the warning labels.
If you really want to get crazy with it you can add small amounts of nitromethane to the water/methanol system for noticeable horsepower/torque gains. It's an oxidized fuel so it sort of acts like a small shot of nitrous when injected with the water/methanol. It needs an emulsifier added into it to keep it spread evenly throughout though, so don't go to your local RC car store and pick up some. You need it premixed. Snow Performance sells small bottles of it IIRC.
The stuff is great if you don't have any other options for alternative fueling like E85. I was able to increase boost from 18 to 25psi, and add 6 degrees of timing on an 11:1 F22 after switching to pump + water/meth. Made enough torque to bend a standard Arias wrist pin and sheer the #4 sleeve clean in half.
12-30-2015, 07:08 PM
#24
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Re: Question about Water Meth Injection
I buy methanol in 5 gallon pails from the local race shop and mix it myself 50/50 with distilled water. If you go this route, make sure you get PURE methanol. You do not want or need any additives in it and most places will try to sell it to you.
Run a failsafe like previously stated. Even with a good kit you can still have issues. My AEM kit would cut out randomly at times because of a loose wire and the boost safe feature would switch to my pump gas maps in Neptune every time and save the motor.
50/50 is supposed to be about the "best" mixture. As TheShodan said, just keep the mixture consistent. You can go more or less...but I wouldn't run too much methanol. It's hard on the system components and it is very flammable. It also burns with a nearly invisible flame too which is pretty scary when you think about it. Another thing to note when handling pure methanol is take extra care not to get it on your skin or in your eyes. You may not feel the effects right away but if you get enough on you, you can go blind permanently along with a host of other terrible things. Pay attention to the warning labels.
If you really want to get crazy with it you can add small amounts of nitromethane to the water/methanol system for noticeable horsepower/torque gains. It's an oxidized fuel so it sort of acts like a small shot of nitrous when injected with the water/methanol. It needs an emulsifier added into it to keep it spread evenly throughout though, so don't go to your local RC car store and pick up some. You need it premixed. Snow Performance sells small bottles of it IIRC.
The stuff is great if you don't have any other options for alternative fueling like E85. I was able to increase boost from 18 to 25psi, and add 6 degrees of timing on an 11:1 F22 after switching to pump + water/meth. Made enough torque to bend a standard Arias wrist pin and sheer the #4 sleeve clean in half.
Run a failsafe like previously stated. Even with a good kit you can still have issues. My AEM kit would cut out randomly at times because of a loose wire and the boost safe feature would switch to my pump gas maps in Neptune every time and save the motor.
50/50 is supposed to be about the "best" mixture. As TheShodan said, just keep the mixture consistent. You can go more or less...but I wouldn't run too much methanol. It's hard on the system components and it is very flammable. It also burns with a nearly invisible flame too which is pretty scary when you think about it. Another thing to note when handling pure methanol is take extra care not to get it on your skin or in your eyes. You may not feel the effects right away but if you get enough on you, you can go blind permanently along with a host of other terrible things. Pay attention to the warning labels.
If you really want to get crazy with it you can add small amounts of nitromethane to the water/methanol system for noticeable horsepower/torque gains. It's an oxidized fuel so it sort of acts like a small shot of nitrous when injected with the water/methanol. It needs an emulsifier added into it to keep it spread evenly throughout though, so don't go to your local RC car store and pick up some. You need it premixed. Snow Performance sells small bottles of it IIRC.
The stuff is great if you don't have any other options for alternative fueling like E85. I was able to increase boost from 18 to 25psi, and add 6 degrees of timing on an 11:1 F22 after switching to pump + water/meth. Made enough torque to bend a standard Arias wrist pin and sheer the #4 sleeve clean in half.
12-30-2015, 08:18 PM
#25
Re: Question about Water Meth Injection
It's better than E85..alternative my a$$. I'll take that meth/water mix (I'm at 80/20 mix myself) over corn water any day.
Keeps cylinder temps down, adds power based upon tuning, and I can make it myself.. They can keep it.
Simply my biased opinion..nothing more. No one will ever change my mind about it, so save your keystrokes of rebuttal, please
Keeps cylinder temps down, adds power based upon tuning, and I can make it myself.. They can keep it.
Simply my biased opinion..nothing more. No one will ever change my mind about it, so save your keystrokes of rebuttal, please