19sec beast

I titled the thread the way I did in case anyone else has the same problems I have can use the search feature and hopefully find some useful information in this thread.

I'm having some extremely odd ignition issues and I'm at the point where I'd rather buy an AEM EMS, CDI, and CBR coils just to eliminate the problem.

I know with the COP setup it will usually run about $1,500.00 to get the coils, CDI pack, and an AEM EMS. Are there any other more cost effective ways of upgrading the ignition?

I'm currently using the MSD 6AL, Blaster Coil, and MSD wires with NGK plugs BRK7E-11s gapped at 19 and at 630whp I break up up top.

Even on low boost, for some reason, I always break up at around 6300RPMs and my tach signal goes out. There has to be a link between these two problems, because it also loses tach signal on the dyno. See pics below.




As you can see, there's a loss of signal and that's where the car breaks up. Fresh plugs help reduce the breaking up, but not entirely and it always comes back. When using older plugs, it doesn't even rev past that point, and feels like it's hitting a wall.

Upgrade to the MSD Digital 7 before trying COP? Is AEM EMS the only way to effectively run a COP setup? Would Hondata be able to support it? What advantages does the MSD Digital 7 serve over the MSD 6AL? Anything else needed to run the Digital 7 or do I replace my MSD 6al box with the Digital 7?

Any tips would be great!

Boner_Ben

For 630hp you will need some colder plugs. Probably go with a 9 heat range.

Mugencrxsir1

Bump for answer, interesting. I know you don't want to spend $1000-$1500, but I do believe the distributor is a pain in the *** for Higher HP hondas. Atleast that's my opinion. COPs or a version of the 240 ignition

Dunc

I have the MSD Digital 6-Plus, Blaster coil, MSD wires, cap, and BKR7E (not the 7E-11's) and have had not one problem....knock on wood. I'm too afraid to change anything since it works well haha.

Things I would try:
- Try the regular BKR7E's instead.
- I think you have a good idea on trying a better ignition. Try the Digital 6 or even a 7.
- You obviously have a distributor cap. Is it an MSD cap? One thing that I did have an issue with that started causing break ups was the cap itself. Pull it off and check out the contacts. If they are not fresh looking, then that might be the issue right there. Below is a link to a picture of what my contacts looked like when I had the problem.
- I don't think you need to scrap everything you have right now. Even though people do compain about MSD and such, their stuff does work.

Picture link: http://memimage.cardomain.net/...l.jpg

19sec beast

Thanks for the info. I'll give the BKR7Es a shot.

EARLdaSQUIRREL

did you try a different distributor, maybe your ignitor or something is goin inside the dizzy....

if all else fails just get the whole msd dizzy and be done with it, everyone is having excellent results with it that ive seen

TURBOFTW

iTrader: (1)

Correct me if im wrong but i thought the only difference between bkr7e and bkr7e-11's were that one was pre-gapped and one wasnt....?

EARLdaSQUIRREL

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PeakBOOST &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Correct me if im wrong but i thought the only difference between bkr7e and bkr7e-11's were that one was pre-gapped and one wasnt....?</TD></TR></TABLE>

thats what i thought too, which means it wouldnt really matter because you would have to gap them anyways...

ladysman

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PeakBOOST &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Correct me if im wrong but i thought the only difference between bkr7e and bkr7e-11's were that one was pre-gapped and one wasnt....?</TD></TR></TABLE>

You are correct. I think AFP was suggesting maybe try BCPR7ES's maybe? If so, these are part number 3330 from NGK. You can order them from Advance Auto. They don't have a projected tip nor do they have the V-Power center electrode.

However, for 630whp, these are too hot of a plug. You need 9's like someone suggested.

The problem you describe of breaking up and Tach going haywire is an ignitor issue. This same problem happened to me and once I replaced it, hasn't done it since. I also had an ignition break up after that and removed the MSD and that fixed it.

With M&W ignition, you completely remove the ignitor altogether from the distributor and use a PS-92 Crane coil. I personally had bad luck with MSD coils so I just don't use them. M&W and Arturbo recommend the PS-92 but the LX-92 will also work.

If I were you, I would sell all the MSD and get the coil and M&W. If you want more info, contact Arturbo. Good luck and keep us posted.

Edit: I should add that nothign really beats a COP setup but you would have to change a lot of things and buy more stuff. If you are willing to spend the extra $ then go for it! My suggestions was if you didn't want to spend the $.


Modified by ladysman at 2:56 PM 10/13/2006

Dunc

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ladysman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> You are correct. I think AFP was suggesting maybe try BCPR7ES's maybe?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Nope, I did mean the BKR7E's. I am aware that the only difference is the pre-gap. I said to try these just becuase when you have a pre-gap of 44 then you have to bend the strap a lot more than the one without the large gap.


Which one would you rather use to get a good spark?
- This might not be EXACTLY what it would look like, but you get the idea.

19sec beast

Up for some good info.

SPOOLINmatt

go buy some 9's , WTF!!! part number 5238 at the advance counter.

seen4ever

7 is far too hot of a plug for that power range
NGK R5672A-8
NGK R5672A-9

are what you need. I'd probably atleast have an 8 in it, if not a 9. I noticed after my last few events, from running big boost and spray, the 8's ground strap is getting a good deal of heat, so I'll probably move to a 9.

I'd ditch the MSD box too and just get an M&W box, and kill the stock ignitor.

DRAGLS

Are you using a OE distributor or a reman-dizzy?(distributor king)

19sec beast

Used (eBay - I know, I know... needed a quick fix) distributor.

Seems colder plugs is the first step.

Turbo-charged

T1 cam trigger kit
AEM EMS
MSD Digital 7
MSD HVC2 Coil


cleared up the 2 years of ignition missfires i had, which were caused by a bad ignition INPUT signal (the T1 cam trigger now gives the input signal, and the car runs perfect)

slow poke

There is very simple and effective answer to your problem. Get the MSD pro billet distro and save yourself allot of hassel. (also check you wiring!)

Turbocivic94

M&W here

mike93eh2

get some colder plugs and what are your current ones gapped at?

alpha

I told you Daniel

D@nnY

change the ignitor....

19sec beast

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Turbo-charged &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">T1 cam trigger kit
AEM EMS
MSD Digital 7
MSD HVC2 Coil


cleared up the 2 years of ignition missfires i had, which were caused by a bad ignition INPUT signal (the T1 cam trigger now gives the input signal, and the car runs perfect)</TD></TR></TABLE>

It seems this is the best route, but it's hard trying to justify another $1,700 purchase (to the wife, lol) after I just bought a JDM GSR transmission and a Kaaz LSD, heh.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slow poke &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">There is very simple and effective answer to your problem. Get the MSD pro billet distro and save yourself allot of hassel. (also check you wiring!)</TD></TR></TABLE>

My car is non-VTEC. The MSD Billet dizzy only works for VTEC heads. I would've bought one the second they came out if they offered it for my car.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mike93eh2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">get some colder plugs and what are your current ones gapped at?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Currently gapped at 19.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 0x64 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I told you Daniel </TD></TR></TABLE>

Hush you. lol.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by D@nnY &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">change the ignitor....</TD></TR></TABLE>

We've used an entirely different distributor with the same outcome.

__________________________________________________ _______


I notice a lot of people saying AEM EMS, AEM EMS, AEM EMS...

Is there a reason a standalone unit like the Hondata S300 wouldn't work just as well?

The reason I'm trying to find a cost effective fix is because I've spent over $3,000 in the last month painting the car, doing body work, and buying the transmission and LSD. I'd rather not get castrated by the wife for wanting to spend another $1,700 to fix my ignition considering I still need to buy slicks, LOL.

I appreciate all the info.

OBRJosh

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 19sec beast &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

My car is non-VTEC. The MSD Billet dizzy only works for VTEC heads. I would've bought one the second they came out if they offered it for my car.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
The Msd dizzy will fit the Ls Head Only the top bolt lines up though as for the Aem It supports C.O.P were the S300 Doesnt.

19sec beast

So the new MSD Billet distributor can work with non-VTEC heads?

Going to pick up some 9s in a few minutes.

OBRJosh

A vtec Dizzy, will fit a LS head ive done it last week and the car ran fine, but Only the top bolt lines up, So if a stock vtec dizzy works on a Ls Head then the MSd Dizzy Should work , I put my Vtec dizzy on Turbo-Ls 's hatch to rule out his Bad dizzy and car ran great with a vtec Dizzy Also I believe the MSd Is Obd2 So if you have OBD1 you just have to switch to a single plug but thats very easy


Modified by OBRJosh at 12:14 PM 10/14/2006