pump gas limits?
03-30-2006, 10:08 AM
#6
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: CT
Posts: 3,107
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: pump gas limits? (Split Image Prez)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Split Image Prez »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Not sure on HP ratings but boost wise I believe it's roughly 12 lbs...</TD></TR></TABLE>
12lbs aint much at all, im running 16 psi on 93 right now with more room to spare.
12lbs aint much at all, im running 16 psi on 93 right now with more room to spare.
Trending Topics
03-30-2006, 10:18 AM
#8
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Watertown, CT, USA
Posts: 1,734
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: pump gas limits? (Split Image Prez)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Split Image Prez »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Not sure on HP ratings but boost wise I believe it's roughly 12 lbs...</TD></TR></TABLE>
haha, what?!?! It has to do with cylinder pressure too. I'm under the impression because of the smaller bore of the D series the pressure on the piston is a lot higher than a bigger bore but still 1.6 liter B series. 400 or maybe a little more sounds about right to me though.
haha, what?!?! It has to do with cylinder pressure too. I'm under the impression because of the smaller bore of the D series the pressure on the piston is a lot higher than a bigger bore but still 1.6 liter B series. 400 or maybe a little more sounds about right to me though.
03-30-2006, 10:23 AM
#9
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Around, IL
Posts: 1,373
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: pump gas limits? (nonvtecD)
from what ive seen around here, its usually around 400-450 on pump gas. i was always wondering what determines the actual limits though.
03-30-2006, 10:28 AM
#10
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Watertown, CT, USA
Posts: 1,734
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: pump gas limits? (D@nnY)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by D@nnY »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">generally safe is 100 hp per cylinder which in our cars is 400
a little higher If you back down timing </TD></TR></TABLE>
It's not related to cylinders because not all cylinders are the same size
a little higher If you back down timing </TD></TR></TABLE>
It's not related to cylinders because not all cylinders are the same size
03-30-2006, 12:05 PM
#11
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Plano, TX, USA
Posts: 3,061
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: pump gas limits? (nonvtecD)
I usually see 16-18 lbs of boost max on pump...
I have a buddy that makes like 515whp on pump.....
Its alot of timing to make that much power on pump...
more timing= less reliable.
The good tuners take out timing while adding boost, at least you know its reliable
I have a buddy that makes like 515whp on pump.....
Its alot of timing to make that much power on pump...
more timing= less reliable.
The good tuners take out timing while adding boost, at least you know its reliable
03-30-2006, 12:06 PM
#12
Member
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Now in SoCal, CA, USA
Posts: 1,210
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: pump gas limits? (nonvtecD)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nonvtecD »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
It's not related to cylinders because not all cylinders are the same size </TD></TR></TABLE>
difference in cylinder size is not that significant because we're talking about the stress placed on a cylinder from a given power output level.
The more important factor is the "room for error" you are left with when dealing with 100+hp per cylinder. which isn't much at that level...
It's not related to cylinders because not all cylinders are the same size
</TD></TR></TABLE>difference in cylinder size is not that significant because we're talking about the stress placed on a cylinder from a given power output level.
The more important factor is the "room for error" you are left with when dealing with 100+hp per cylinder. which isn't much at that level...
03-30-2006, 12:13 PM
#13
Member
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Now in SoCal, CA, USA
Posts: 1,210
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: pump gas limits? (JDM00SI)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDM00SI »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I usually see 16-18 lbs of boost max on pump...
I have a buddy that makes like 515whp on pump.....
Its alot of timing to make that much power on pump...
more timing= less reliable.
The good tuners take out timing while adding boost, at least you know its reliable</TD></TR></TABLE>
Your talking about methods to try to prevent detonation.
but with little room for error all the timming tricks in the world wont save a motor from a bad tank of gas or some minor thing going wrong that causes a big mess...
keep in mind boost level is completely irrelevant. It's the power levels that determine the amount of stress a motor sees...
Since we are talking about reliability, people need to think more about heat management... for that is the #1 killer of reliability! (assuming a good tune)
I have a buddy that makes like 515whp on pump.....
Its alot of timing to make that much power on pump...
more timing= less reliable.
The good tuners take out timing while adding boost, at least you know its reliable</TD></TR></TABLE>
Your talking about methods to try to prevent detonation.
but with little room for error all the timming tricks in the world wont save a motor from a bad tank of gas or some minor thing going wrong that causes a big mess...keep in mind boost level is completely irrelevant. It's the power levels that determine the amount of stress a motor sees...
Since we are talking about reliability, people need to think more about heat management... for that is the #1 killer of reliability! (assuming a good tune)
03-30-2006, 01:08 PM
#15
Member
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Now in SoCal, CA, USA
Posts: 1,210
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: (onefstek)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by onefstek »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have ran 25 psi on 92 octane and made 550 whp. 9.5:1 cr gsr. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Thats cool, but for how long? and why do you talk in past tense?
lets not omit the word "safely" the original poster used...
Thats cool, but for how long? and why do you talk in past tense?
lets not omit the word "safely" the original poster used...
03-30-2006, 01:51 PM
#16
Honda-Tech Member
Re: (turbosi03)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turbosi03 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Thats cool, but for how long? and why do you talk in past tense?
lets not omit the word "safely" the original poster used...</TD></TR></TABLE>
Daily driver for the last two years, and still going strong.
I drag race on the weekends, best time 10.7@135mph
Featured in the April 2006 issue of Import Tuner, white 2000 civic h/b page 68, I think
Thats cool, but for how long? and why do you talk in past tense?
lets not omit the word "safely" the original poster used...</TD></TR></TABLE>
Daily driver for the last two years, and still going strong.
I drag race on the weekends, best time 10.7@135mph
Featured in the April 2006 issue of Import Tuner, white 2000 civic h/b page 68, I think
03-30-2006, 01:56 PM
#17
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: 18psi, TX
Posts: 1,508
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: (turbosi03)
besides "onefstek" who else that makes more than 400whp daily drive,(to work/school and everything else. not to just go grab a burger) there car on 93?
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turbosi03 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
lets not omit the word "safely" the original poster used...</TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turbosi03 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
lets not omit the word "safely" the original poster used...</TD></TR></TABLE>
03-30-2006, 04:00 PM
#19
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Watertown, CT, USA
Posts: 1,734
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: pump gas limits? (turbosi03)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turbosi03 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">difference in cylinder size is not that significant because we're talking about the stress placed on a cylinder from a given power output level.
The more important factor is the "room for error" you are left with when dealing with 100+hp per cylinder. which isn't much at that level... </TD></TR></TABLE>
huh? How is cylinder and bore size not a signicant factor? Yes it is.
I'm betting an H22 is safer at 400 hp than a D series is.
The more important factor is the "room for error" you are left with when dealing with 100+hp per cylinder. which isn't much at that level... </TD></TR></TABLE>
huh? How is cylinder and bore size not a signicant factor? Yes it is.
I'm betting an H22 is safer at 400 hp than a D series is.
03-30-2006, 04:02 PM
#20
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: BOWIE, MD
Posts: 448
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: (Soccerking3000)
I ran 18psi on a stock s2000 motor for almost a year and made 450whp on 93 pump gas only reason I got rid of it was because I did a fully built motor that only runs on c-16. how dumb of a move was that
03-30-2006, 04:10 PM
#21
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Jacksonville, NC, USA
Posts: 270
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: pump gas limits? (turbosi03)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turbosi03 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Since we are talking about reliability, people need to think more about heat management... for that is the #1 killer of reliability! (assuming a good tune)</TD></TR></TABLE>
How would you go about this heat management???
How would you go about this heat management???
03-30-2006, 04:10 PM
#22
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada
Posts: 2,859
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: pump gas limits? (opendp)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by opendp »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
whats the max whp # that can be pushed on 93 octane safely? did a search and the #'s keep going up
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Depends on compression ratio and how much HP/L (or TQ/L). The lower you go, the more power you can make at a lower octane rating but with sacrifices of having a sluggish low CR engine.
200-220HP/L seems like a good reference point IMO for 93 oct on a Honda B-series on factory compression (10.0:1 or so).
Modified by Tony the Tiger at 9:40 PM 3/30/2006
whats the max whp # that can be pushed on 93 octane safely? did a search and the #'s keep going up
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Depends on compression ratio and how much HP/L (or TQ/L). The lower you go, the more power you can make at a lower octane rating but with sacrifices of having a sluggish low CR engine.
200-220HP/L seems like a good reference point IMO for 93 oct on a Honda B-series on factory compression (10.0:1 or so).
Modified by Tony the Tiger at 9:40 PM 3/30/2006
03-30-2006, 04:10 PM
#23
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 500
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's not a Honda, but I was in the neighborhood of 400 WHP on 91 octane in my stock block DSM.
On advantage of pump gas is that it seems to burn extremely quick. Running low timing advance doesn't really make the EGTs go all that high if you have a good setup. The key to high pumpgas power is keeping PEAK cylinder pressures down and the easiest way to do that is drop the timing advance down.
To make up for the lost power from the lower timing, you up the boost. I know guys doing over 30 PSI on 91 octane. I never bothered to go much higher then 25 PSI on the GT2871R and on the T67, I was scared the bottom end was going to let go above 20 PSI, racegas or pumpgas.
On advantage of pump gas is that it seems to burn extremely quick. Running low timing advance doesn't really make the EGTs go all that high if you have a good setup. The key to high pumpgas power is keeping PEAK cylinder pressures down and the easiest way to do that is drop the timing advance down.
To make up for the lost power from the lower timing, you up the boost. I know guys doing over 30 PSI on 91 octane. I never bothered to go much higher then 25 PSI on the GT2871R and on the T67, I was scared the bottom end was going to let go above 20 PSI, racegas or pumpgas.
03-30-2006, 04:55 PM
#24
Member
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Now in SoCal, CA, USA
Posts: 1,210
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: (99_GS-T)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nonvtecD »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
huh? How is cylinder and bore size not a signicant factor? Yes it is. I'm betting an H22 is safer at 400 hp than a D series is.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I'm betting the bore size is not the only difference between an H-series and a D-series motors
when talking about stress on parts from the explosions inside a cylinder, the bore size isn't much of a factor compared to the strength of components, cyl wall thickness and material, etc... and of course the tune.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by infrontofu »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
How would you go about this heat management???</TD></TR></TABLE>
by making sure you have a sufficient cooling system. you may see people with 600+hp using stock radiator's etc... but that's because they are simply trying to get down the 1/4mi track as fast as they can. street cars need to pay more attention to the cooling system if they are interested in reliability.
also fight the battle with heat soak... such as thermal coating parts, heat wrap, vented hoods or custom air duck's to move air through the eng bay
you can find tons of good treads that discuss this topic
huh? How is cylinder and bore size not a signicant factor? Yes it is. I'm betting an H22 is safer at 400 hp than a D series is.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I'm betting the bore size is not the only difference between an H-series and a D-series motors
when talking about stress on parts from the explosions inside a cylinder, the bore size isn't much of a factor compared to the strength of components, cyl wall thickness and material, etc... and of course the tune.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by infrontofu »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
How would you go about this heat management???</TD></TR></TABLE>
by making sure you have a sufficient cooling system. you may see people with 600+hp using stock radiator's etc... but that's because they are simply trying to get down the 1/4mi track as fast as they can. street cars need to pay more attention to the cooling system if they are interested in reliability.
also fight the battle with heat soak... such as thermal coating parts, heat wrap, vented hoods or custom air duck's to move air through the eng bay
you can find tons of good treads that discuss this topic