mike93eh2

im going to use hylomar on the gasket and then torque it down to 65 ft lbs using arp studs. drive it around to get it warm and then let it sit and cool completely. then recheck the torque and that should be it right? maybe check it again after a couple more heat cycles?

RCautoworks

I never use the stuff, but I would go off the instructions on the can or tube. I know some of them require a 1 hour cure time. Just my opinion, read instructions and go from there.

Timmay

ive always sprayed my headgaskets with a little copper spray and let them dry for a few min.. when i tq my studs i start with 20 then do 40 and back it off and back to 40.. i do that about 2-3 times to let them stretch a little.. then i goto the desired tq settings

mike93eh2

uh guys, im not asking howto use hylomar. i use the stuff all the time.


im asking about the proper way to use a copper headgasket. you know like torque down, heat the head up, while still hot loosen the studs and retorque... you know something to that effect..

anyone know?

RC000E

I've just run the motor through one heat cycle, then allowed the head to cool. After it's cool I loosen all in the pattern they were torqued in, then retorque to spec [once again in pattern] in order to help seat the O-rings. Also, run through that first heat cycle with no coolant pressure in the motor.

mike93eh2

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RC000E &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I've just run the motor through one heat cycle, then allowed the head to cool. After it's cool I loosen all in the pattern they were torqued in, then retorque to spec [once again in pattern] in order to help seat the O-rings. Also, run through that first heat cycle with no coolant pressure in the motor.</TD></TR></TABLE>

you mean just leave the radiator cap off? or make sure there is no coolant at all in the system..

i was doing some reading and nelson racing said to do one heat cycle and WHILE its still hot you loosen them all and retorque..


and btw im not using o-rings since my block is step decked.

RC000E

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mike93eh2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

you mean just leave the radiator cap off? or make sure there is no coolant at all in the system..

i was doing some reading and nelson racing said to do one heat cycle and WHILE its still hot you loosen them all and retorque..


and btw im not using o-rings since my block is step decked.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I see...well to clarify, yes I mean with coolant in the system, but with the rad cap off. You don't want to heat the motor suddenly, so you want coolant, you just don't want pressure.

I can't comment on the "while hot" part. I have never done that. I have let the motor cool, loosen in pattern, then retorque in pattern and have never had an issue.

Also, instead of using Hylomar I use Yammabond. It's sold at yamaha motorcycle shops generally or online. It's alot easier to work with than Hylomar and I just feel it's better at sealing things off. If your comfortable using Hylomar though, then go that route.

mike93eh2

i think hylomar is some good ****.. what i really want but cant find anywhere is some permatex super 300 form a gasket!!

mike93eh2

damn i know there arent too many hondas using copper headgaskets but i thought there would be a few with some experience.. if my engine was built right i wouldnt even have to think about using one

tepid1

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RC000E &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I see...well to clarify, yes I mean with coolant in the system, but with the rad cap off. You don't want to heat the motor suddenly, so you want coolant, you just don't want pressure.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Actually it will heat up faster with no pressure. If you pressurize the coolant system it raises the boiling point.

Yamabond is pretty good. I use Hondabond myself.

mike93eh2

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tepid1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Actually it will heat up faster with no pressure. If you pressurize the coolant system it raises the boiling point.

Yamabond is pretty good. I use Hondabond myself.</TD></TR></TABLE>

yea if youre just using it to seal the water and oil passages. but hylomar is for me.

anyone else have any techniques for installing copper headgaskets?

mike93eh2

bump

mike93eh2

damnit

mike93eh2

once more..

mike93eh2

ttt, i lied.

mike93eh2

bumpity bumperoo

mike93eh2

*crickets*

mike93eh2

hi

mike93eh2

well, it looks like what im doing (or what i have to do) is some revolutionary ****!! ill post back with results.

mike93eh2

once a day until the doctor goes away

RC000E

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tepid1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Actually it will heat up faster with no pressure. If you pressurize the coolant system it raises the boiling point.

Yamabond is pretty good. I use Hondabond myself.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I don't understand why you quoted my statement and responded to it as you did. I was stating that you don't want the motor to heat so quickly, as in having no coolant in the system at all. Having coolant in the motor, yet unpressurized will allow the motor to warm slower than if the engine had no coolant at all.

O.P. ...what more do you want to know? Apparently not too many people run copper gasket setups.

mike93eh2

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RC000E &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
O.P. ...what more do you want to know? Apparently not too many people run copper gasket setups.</TD></TR></TABLE>

yea i know not too many hondas run copper headgaskets.. but it seems this is what im going to have to do

i was really just wanting to hear from anyone that has any experience with copper headgaskets. everyone is always saying they are a pain in the *** and not for a daily driver...why is that? im not worried about it leaking coolant or oil. hylomar and permatex super 300 is the ****. i just need it to seal the combustion

my darton sleeves are step decked.. you dont need SS orings for the copper gasket if its step decked right? that should be enough.

the head is off and ready to be put back together... im not in a hurry because i wont be driving the car anytime soon thanks to winter. so its just chilling here while i do more research.

i guess ill just clean and put sealant on the gasket, torque the arp's to 65. warm up engine. let it cool down completely and then slightly loosen the arps and retorque to 70 ft lbs.

slodel

use proper trq sequence

mike93eh2

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slodel &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">use proper trq sequence </TD></TR></TABLE>

always do!

RC000E

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mike93eh2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">my darton sleeves are step decked.. you dont need SS orings for the copper gasket if its step decked right? that should be enough.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah, if you've got a step deck, then that's going to basically serve the same purpose as the O-rings will.

Honestly, I have only built an O-ringed motor once and after the experience I went with step decking. I have heard alot of controversy about step decking causing head distortion and sleeve dropping, but I've not experienced that. I question if it's the height that some of these guys are step decking...I don't know otherwise.

I've step decked 3 motors .003, used yammabond (and Hondabond...whichever I had on hand at the time) and had NO problems to date. The leakdown was good on all the motors and to date all are still running as they should be.

Two of the step decked motors were for guys who, to date, haven't run beyond 30 psi. The third though, the guy has seen 50 psi on the motor and has a season worth of passes on it.

If you keep everything clean on assembly, keep everything oil free (assemble with some powder free latex gloves), and seal everything up with the bond or hylomar you really should have absolutely no problems whatsoever. Good assembly practices are key, and as long as your machining was done well you shouldn't have an issue.