TravisBiggie

I have an unknown mileage b18, and I want to get forged rods and pistons so I can run 350-400whp. I do not want to sleeve the block. Lets say I have the block removed, and the new rods and pistons ready to bring em to a shop, what else should be done to the block before installing the pistons (what would the shop recommend) I am trying to calculate the labor/shop cost, OR could I install some of this **** myself and have a shop do tasks that I cannot?

While writing this, I am asking myself why don't I do it myself, obviously I would know my **** before continuing with that of course. If I went this route I'm sure itll save me a few bucks as well, but what should I have the shop do that I could not?


Also, what kind of compression ratio should I look for? I am going to keep my non vtec head, I am going to stay with stock cams for awhile but eventually will upgrade.

Thanks

yungkhmer

eagle rods & arias 81.5mm pistons. ( 9.1:1 - 10.1:1 comp )

bore .5 over.

hone.

get everything machined,balanced and clearanced.

block decked min amount.

head milled min amount.

if your going to keep it non v, you should look into the crower 403 cams. i had them in my built ls turbo build.

oreozzz

Couldnt have said it better myself, also for peace of mind... pick up some ARP hardware for the main studs and the head studs.

civickiller

main studs not needed, you can find je/eagle rod combo on ebay, vtec oil pump
as for cr depends if youre staying nonv or not but if you dont know a 9.5 cr either way is good i think

TravisBiggie

Thanks for the replies dudes.

Am going to stay with my non vtec head, I'm sure I can get 400whp out of it.

I have arp head studs. Will get arp rod bolts, gsr oil pump.

I am going to look at cams eventually

TravisBiggie

Can you guess what this would cost labor? an average? cause I am CLUELESS! I'm considering buying a sleeved b20b block with pistons and rods etc for 1100 locally, which is a steal since pistons and rods alone are ~700 and sleeves are 600.

yungkhmer

call your local reputable machine shop and ask them. I dont know where you are but im my area, ( seattle.wa ) was nomore than a few hundred.

You really gonna stick with the non v ls head? completly stock? i wasnt really happy when i had it stock so i upgraded to crower 403's full valvetrain, 67mm tb & a port matched skank2 intake manifold and it was like night and day. but if not, good luck bro in your build!

and wait, sleeves are 600?! what brand?! where are you located?

racebum

make sure you know what youre buying. find out who sleeved it, get the paperwork. make sure there are no stripped bolt holes. inspect the bearings for damage.

TravisBiggie

i see dartons online for 600..

I'm in des moines wa. I guess I can put a new valve train into the picture.. cams, retainers, springs, anything else? ive heard crower 403s are good with boost?

yungkhmer

oh niceee. im in seattle,wa. ive had really good success with crower 403's on boost with a precision pte67.

you should be able to get 400whp with what i suggested above, if i remember right the 4431e is similar to To4e 60 trim? so 400 should be no problem.

SP GARAGE

iTrader: (1)

Look into the CSS setup he warranties the blocks up to 500hp

TravisBiggie

correct. What kind of springs and retainers should I get? And where should I look for crowers, Id buy them used if needed.


Also, can you point me in the right direction for the "css setup" ?

Thanks

damnilovepuzz3d

For the cost of cams, springs, and retainers you might as well just swap to a VTEC head. It will have better flowing ports and larger cams.

racebum

that's JUST sleeves. installed and machined price on a bare block is about 2000

yungkhmer

http://www.b20vtec.com/forums/engine...rt-system.html

https://honda-tech.com/forums/showth...3004717&page=6

i run supertech valvetrain. you can try craigslist for the crowers. but realistically yea a stock vtec head will gain you like 50whp over an LS.

hannslebo

JE SRP pistons

EAGLE/MANLY rods



FTW!

TravisBiggie

thanks for all the replies guys.

I was thinking of getting eagle rods. Does the compression change when running a p72 head instead of a stock ls head?

What about ls pistons and gsr pistons, which should/can I for 400whp, maybe 500 later, or would it be wise at this point to get forged pistons?

CO_RaceFab

Why do people on this forum insist on putting forged pistons and rods in motors making 400hp, this is such a huge waste of money. not to mention building a Honda engine with stock sleeves.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Because the use of forged pistons is not just about a "power" issue, or some peak dyno number. Its about longevity and better power range without the risk. There are many of us that don't want to trust a stock or cast piston for the kind of driving that we would do.

In addition, much of the OEM and Aftermarket cast companies don't offer the choices in compression ratios that we may wont. Why go through the BS of milling heads and messing with headgasket thicknesses around a cast piston, hoping that it creates the static compression that we're looking for, when a good forged piston takes a lot of guess work out of making sure that you have the right compression, allows for changes in power and abuse without additional risk, and still allows for longevity for years to come.

Why compromise? Get the right stuff the first time.. I'm on the same set of Forged pistons on HPDE and Time attack for over 6 years at anywhere from 13-26psi of boost pressure depending on the track for 6 hours at a time throughout the day.. try doing that with a cast piston with the increased cylinder pressures that the engine goes through for 6 hours at a time.

Its not just about budgets; its about getting the right compression and the right parts the first time out.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Yes, static compression does change with the use of the GS-R vs, the LS head. More importantly, the amount of CFM that the cylinder head flows goes from 173cfm to over 245cfm.. and that's with stock camshafts and ports from the GS-R

Use forged components and calculate their use with LS length rods with forged pistons and calculate your compression taking into account everything.

Spawne32

iTrader: (3)

You know i love you and all, but are those official numbers or did you just pull those out of your ***.

Spawne32

iTrader: (3)

Also for the sake of argument, obviously you have the disadvantages of valve size with the LS heads, 31mm vs 33mm which makes up a significant portion of flow. Would you say that the more elongated shape of the vtec head intake port is better suited for high RPM flow vs the shorter port shape of the non vtec head which would possibly be better suited for flow under a certain RPM?

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

It was an example of some of the averages I've seen. so get all bent out over it.. Look at my entire crux of reasoning, not just semantics of the number.. relax already you'll live.

Would you feel better at 225cfm or 215cfm? Either way, its more than the LS.

4cylfiend

iTrader: (1)

As far as the block is concerned, I would still go ahead and sleeve it just because we all know that 400whp isnt going to be all that the OP is ever going to want. I made the mistake of just doing a piston/rod build for my first build and it just ended up costing me so much more money when I had to tear everything back down and send the block out for sleeves. GE/AEBS sleeves can be done for 1100-1300 which, in my opinon is worth doing right up front when you are building something like this. Im sure not everyone is going to agree with that statement but Ive got a good feeling that some of the more experienced guys in here will. Doing things right, the first time, saves alot of money and alot of stress later down the road. Trust me, I had to learn the hard way just like many other members on the forum.

*DONT SKIP OUT ON YOUR VALVETRAIN* regardless of what head/cams you are going to run.

Remember to honestly ask yourself, Are you really going to be satisfied with 400-450whp?

Good luck!

Spawne32

iTrader: (3)

I conceded to the fact that the vtec head was superior a while ago. Just strictly over the rocker setup alone. The flow bench numbers just get my ***** in a twist as of late because I have a legitimate flow bench of my non vtec P8R head vs a b16 head showing exactly what I have been saying and it gets shot down over the fact that "vtec popping is cool yo, gotta pop that vtec".