GO-FIGHT-KILL

I searched, and I couldn't find any substantial information. I apologize if I missed it somehow.

I'm trying to find how much stock Type-R rods weigh, and what they're normal 'Safety Factor' break point is (i.e. Say, 350whp). I'm trying to find a comparable aftermarket rod weight wise to stock Type-R. Eagle H-Beams are consistantly 520-535g, and the lightest I've found are Carrillo Pro-As, which are 411g. How do these stack up to stock Type-R?

I'm only planning on running 350whp AT THE MOST (On average, it won't see more than 250-300whp on the street), if I stick with stock rods. Is that safe?

It seems to me, that the weakest point in a boosted Type-R, would be the ringlands. So I figure, if I can get away with it, just install some forged pistons on shot peened stock rods.

If I'm only shooting for 350whp at the most/250-300whp on the street, would this work just fine? I wouldn't mind spending money on aftermarket rods, it would make sense, I just don't want to add any more weight to the bottom end, than I have to (i.e. As I'm not turbocharging it directly after the rebuild, and I will be running EXPO all motor).

Remember, in my situation, the forged rod's WEIGHT is the issue, not the COST. I'm not trying to save money, I'm trying to keep the bottom end as close to stock weight as possible, without spending a fortune.

Any advice, or information, is greatly appreciated.

Schister66

If you're only looking to make 300-350whp on the street, you'll be fine on the stock bottom end. The limiting factor for a stock block setup over 300whp tends to be the fuel grade. If you run daily at ~300whp on pump, then have another tune for race gas at around 375whp, you should be fine. I ran my stock block GSR at 315whp for 2 years without issue and that was tuned on 91octane. My buddy Mike made 378whp on a stock B16 on E85. If you have access to E85 or race gas, your goals will be easily attainable on the stock block.

You did your research

DaveF

what is the problem with a slightly heavier rod? sounds like a dumbass way of building **** if i ever heard of it...... who cares if the rods are .50 grams heavier......

bunch of anymore....


im going to go buy myself a new purse today !

Schister66

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DaveF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> im going to go buy myself a new purse today ! :</TD></TR></TABLE>

Be sure to post pictures cutie

rorik

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GO-FIGHT-KILL &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I'm only planning on running 350whp AT THE MOST (On average, it won't see more than 250-300whp on the street), if I stick with stock rods. Is that safe?

It seems to me, that the weakest point in a boosted Type-R, would be the ringlands. So I figure, if I can get away with it, just install some forged pistons on shot peened stock rods.

I just don't want to add any more weight to the bottom end, than I have to (i.e. As I'm not turbocharging it directly after the rebuild, and I will be running EXPO all motor).

Remember, in my situation, the forged rod's WEIGHT is the issue, not the COST. I'm not trying to save money, I'm trying to keep the bottom end as close to stock weight as possible, without spending a fortune.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

..You have over 5000 posts and don't know that you can use stock rods for 350whp?

I am really curious why you have such a strong desire to save those few grams on the rod weight though. Yes, I know a 4cyl is torsionally unbalanced, so you want to keep that mass to a minimum, but the difference would be miniscule, not even noticeable in any way. Mass of the pistons makes more of a difference than the rods. I'd say less than a pound difference in flywheel weight would be way more than any difference you'd make with the rods as far as rate of acceleration/torsional vibration of the motor.
Am I missing something here?
The type r also has a heavier crank than the gsr, so it's even less noticeable if you increase the reciprocating mass with it.

carzntune

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rorik &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

..You have over 5000 posts and don't know that you can use stock rods for 350whp? </TD></TR></TABLE>

I see him mostly on the Type R section of the forum and most of the R guys, myself included, are not concerned so much with big power. I can understand a large post count and never realizing the stock engine's limits with that mindset.

Your power goal is easily attainable with stock rods. You may as well put some new rods in for added safety along with the forged pistons while it's apart. What weight is added for the short stint NA will all but be forgotten once boosted. Besides, once boosted you may get that itch to "turn it up a little" and the rods and pistons upgrade will allow for that. Be realistic....we all get that itch. :D What compression pistons were you thinking of running?

GO-FIGHT-KILL

That's what I figured, thanks for the input.

Thanks for the input.

A few of my friends have run 350whp on stock B-Series, I just want to make sure it's safe... They always seemed to have problems, but then again, staying at WOT constantly will do that, haha.

No, you're not missing anything, that's exactly the kind of input I'm looking for. Basically, I just wanted to know if it would be a huge difference over the stock weight.

I was thinking of going with a GSR crankshaft anyway, 4lbs makes a big difference on the engine.

Well I knew what the stock bottom end could take, but I seem to remember ring lands giving out long before the rods would. I was mostly curious as to what the stock rods could take, I've heard of 400whp before on stock rods.

I was thinking of going with 10.5:1CR, as I wasn't planning on going much past what the stock bottom end could take, I just wanted to do it safely.

If I build the motor in the future for more/better power, it'll be 84x87.2, 10:1CR, with something like a GT2871R. That would be a very fun, very response setup.

I appreciate the input guys, I just wanted to make sure I'm on the right path.

DaveF

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GO-FIGHT-KILL &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

If I build the motor in the future for more/better power, it'll be 84x87.2, 10:1CR, with something like a GT2871R. That would be a very fun, very response setup.

</TD></TR></TABLE>


you might as well throw a big crank in it too. or at least the 89mm LS crank

Schister66

It sounds like you have a good plan in mind...you should be fine at the power goal you want. Also, your possible future engine build sounds like a great tire-shredding street setup

GO-FIGHT-KILL

^ God it would be a blast.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DaveF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you might as well throw a big crank in it too. or at least the 89mm LS crank</TD></TR></TABLE>

^ ZOMG BUT THEN DA ROD STORKE RAYSHEEOH WILL B THROWD OFF BY .03:1 OMGH!1!!!1!!!!!



Joking.

I probably would do that. The car would be fun as hell, plenty of torque.

Schister66

you're going to need some good tires for the street if you plan on having a torquey setup like that...i already have trouble on my 315whp setup with street tires. I've resorted to BFG Drag Radials (225/50/15) all the time. I'm sure that i'll have to find something better for my new build too...

DaveF

adam, you dd on them drag radials ? how many miles would you say you have gotten out of them ? how often do you "race" in your travels ? do you use the new style or the old style bfg's ?

Schister66

I put about 2k on them this summer and they dont look too bad. They have a little bit of what i would call lipping where the tread started to peel (very slightly) from heating them up at the track. I'd be willing to bet that i'll get another summer out of them before they're useless. That's approx 8-10k miles. On long drives, i try to switch out for my Falkens so i dont add useless miles to my BFG's.

These are the ones i have...again Fnan, nice kitchen (inside joke)

GO-FIGHT-KILL

Thankfully, I have a daily driver, so I can keep the nice/grippy/expensive tires on the Type-R.

I was going to leave the Type-R rather mild... But I'm sick of being the slowest car at the shop, so I've got to step up the game a bit earlier than planned.

(I was planning to build a drag car next year... '95 Nissan 240SX automatic, gutted to the bone, 10-point cage, built KA24DE, Z32 automatic transmission, Z32 non-turbo LSD rear end, Borg Warner S366, supporting modifications, BC 272s/valvetrain, IPT shift kit, 6,000RPM stall, 26x10x15 M/Ts in the rear, on Welds all the way around, with a huge 'Drag &gt; Drift' sticker on the rear glass... I'm still doing it, just later than planned. )

rorik

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GO-FIGHT-KILL &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I was thinking of going with a GSR crankshaft anyway, 4lbs makes a big difference on the engine.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Even if that 4lbs is basically right on the center of the axis of rotation? I mean, it's not like a 4lb heavier flywheel. I would keep the type r crank myself. Honda made it that way for a reason..not that I never disagree with honda, (b16a3 out of p72 block is retarded) but I think the type r crank makes sense.

IN VTEC

iTrader: (3)

I think the Eagle rods are within the same range of mass as the stock P72 rods. The stock rods are between 530g to 545g. The Eagle's are on the heavier side of that, but it's not heavier by much.

I'll have to put the Eagle's on the gram scale when I get the pistons off.

I don't recommend the Carillo Pro-A's or Pro-SA's. You'll surpass the power limits of those rods pretty easily.

GO-FIGHT-KILL

^ Good to know, I'll go with Eagles.

atec

Actually I have weighted Stock ITR rods/pistons vs JE pistons and eagle rods, they differen about 2 grams.
I can weight them again to give you the exact numbers.

NJIN BUILDR

ITR rods are pretty heavy.I'm pretty sure they are heavier than the Eagles.The ITR crank is heavier than a gsr or ls.For your deal I wouldn't even consider weight.A gsr or itr rod will be fine for your build.I would stay below 10:1.It just gives you more room to tune and will still gives you plenty of street power/torque.

JoePSI

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GO-FIGHT-KILL &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I probably would do that. The car would be fun as hell, plenty of torque.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Honda = plenty of torque

GO-FIGHT-KILL

^ Well, plenty of torque, in Honda world.

IN VTEC

iTrader: (3)

I got the mass wrong trying to recall it from memory. The OEM P72 rods are between 540g to 550g from the two or three sets I've measured.

I haven't heard a conclusive number for the mass of the Eagle rod, but I'll try to get it some time.

NJIN BUILDR

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by IN VTEC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I got the mass wrong trying to recall it from memory. The OEM P72 rods are between 540g to 550g from the two or three sets I've measured.

I haven't heard a conclusive number for the mass of the Eagle rod, but I'll try to get it some time.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Eagle lists their gsr rod as 535 grams.A p73 rod is also heavier than a p72 rod.

IN VTEC

iTrader: (3)

The data I have shows that the ITR rods and GS-R rods are roughly the same.

ITR set 1 (used, all from the same motor)
547g 23 8
546g 23 8
546g 23 8
547g 23 8

ITR set 2 (used, unknown origin)
550g 22 5
547g 25 8
548g 22 5
549g 22 5

ITR set 3 (2 new, 2 used)
544g
553g
547g
547g

GSR set 1 (used, all from the same motor)
544g
546g
544g

GO-FIGHT-KILL

Awesome information! Thanks man.