Pice of my True Race/Burns Collector/Manifold - work in prog..
08-23-2004, 04:24 PM
#1
Pice of my True Race/Burns Collector/Manifold - work in prog..
<FONT COLOR="red">finished mani pics on page 2</FONT>
After toying with the Idea of having my own made from pipes, to Kooks/F-R/Lovefab, to all kinds of manifolds i finally said expletive it, i'll just have Burn's design me one, wtf, do it once and do it right and pay to play..
got it today, i can't really complain about anything...
Burns made/welded the collector and True Race Engineering will be doing the rest of the manifold design/assembly in conjunction with Burns Stainless..
(check out true race's welding skillzZz)
anyway, the rest of the manifold has to be mocked up, cut, and welded, here's pics of the hottness for now, more pics as the manifold/dp etc progresses..
Modified by Toda Party at 8:47 PM 8/23/2004
Modified by Toda Party at 10:57 AM 8/16/2006
After toying with the Idea of having my own made from pipes, to Kooks/F-R/Lovefab, to all kinds of manifolds i finally said expletive it, i'll just have Burn's design me one, wtf, do it once and do it right and pay to play..
got it today, i can't really complain about anything...
Burns made/welded the collector and True Race Engineering will be doing the rest of the manifold design/assembly in conjunction with Burns Stainless..
(check out true race's welding skillzZz)
anyway, the rest of the manifold has to be mocked up, cut, and welded, here's pics of the hottness for now, more pics as the manifold/dp etc progresses..
Modified by Toda Party at 8:47 PM 8/23/2004
Modified by Toda Party at 10:57 AM 8/16/2006
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08-23-2004, 06:13 PM
#8
Re: Pice of my True Race/Burns Collector/Manifold - work in prog.. (ian)
Not to belittle Burns in any way, but I don't see a performance difference between that collector and some $20 homemade job. Its all about flow the exhaust gas could car less how nice the welds are on the outside.
08-23-2004, 06:42 PM
#10
Re: Pice of my True Race/Burns Collector/Manifold - work in prog.. (Bailhatch)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bailhatch »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Not to belittle Burns in any way, but I don't see a performance difference between that collector and some $20 homemade job. Its all about flow the exhaust gas could car less how nice the welds are on the outside.</TD></TR></TABLE>
ok i'll show u in pictorial format
my buddy just got this "homemade" manifold...
compare the collectors
granted, not tooo big of a difference, and the top one isn't all welded up yet... shrug, think what you want, small details make all the difference.
ok i'll show u in pictorial format
my buddy just got this "homemade" manifold...
compare the collectors
granted, not tooo big of a difference, and the top one isn't all welded up yet... shrug, think what you want, small details make all the difference.
08-23-2004, 06:47 PM
#11
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Re: Pice of my True Race/Burns Collector/Manifold - work in prog.. (Toda Party)
looks like the first one isnt welded yet. and plus they welded then grinded it down. ofcourse its gonna look nice
08-23-2004, 06:56 PM
#12
Re: Pice of my True Race/Burns Collector/Manifold - work in prog.. (Toda Party)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Toda Party »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
ok i'll show u in pictorial format
my buddy just got this "homemade" manifold...
compare the collectors
granted, not too big of a difference, and the top one isn't all welded up yet... shrug, think what you want, small details make all the difference. </TD></TR></TABLE>
haha nice try! I was assuming that the fabricator could make 2 cuts at 90* to each other. if that was properly cut it would flow just as well IMO. even if it wasn't exactly the same I bet the HP loss would be less than 1hp anyway. Sorry, I'm a cheap bastard that happens to be function ***** to boot. A volatile combo...
ok i'll show u in pictorial format
my buddy just got this "homemade" manifold...
compare the collectors
granted, not too big of a difference, and the top one isn't all welded up yet... shrug, think what you want, small details make all the difference.
</TD></TR></TABLE>haha nice try! I was assuming that the fabricator could make 2 cuts at 90* to each other. if that was properly cut it would flow just as well IMO. even if it wasn't exactly the same I bet the HP loss would be less than 1hp anyway. Sorry, I'm a cheap bastard that happens to be function ***** to boot. A volatile combo...
08-23-2004, 07:10 PM
#14
Re: Pice of my True Race/Burns Collector/Manifold - work in prog.. (Bailhatch)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bailhatch »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
haha nice try! I was assuming that the fabricator could make 2 cuts at 90* to each other. if that was properly cut it would flow just as well IMO. even if it wasn't exactly the same I bet the HP loss would be less than 1hp anyway. Sorry, I'm a cheap bastard that happens to be function ***** to boot. A volatile combo...</TD></TR></TABLE>
Not to be a dick, but what credentials do you have to assume that something would flow "just as well" ? I don't pretend to know much if anything at all about exhaust flow characteristics and this and that, but I'm sure Burns Stainless does, i'll take that over a backyard special manifold, which like i said earlier, would be probably fine, but I'm putting together a serious setup and I want every advantage I can get... tell ya what, when my manifold is done, you can send me something you made and we'll test them against each other to compare, see if you win that 1hp difference bet
I definitely understand the budget racer part but hey, gotta pay to play right...theres places to skimp and places not to, i personally feel intake/exhaust manifolds are overlooked a lot of the time and u lose a lot of "free" potential hp through those oversights shrug
haha nice try! I was assuming that the fabricator could make 2 cuts at 90* to each other. if that was properly cut it would flow just as well IMO. even if it wasn't exactly the same I bet the HP loss would be less than 1hp anyway. Sorry, I'm a cheap bastard that happens to be function ***** to boot. A volatile combo...</TD></TR></TABLE>
Not to be a dick, but what credentials do you have to assume that something would flow "just as well" ? I don't pretend to know much if anything at all about exhaust flow characteristics and this and that, but I'm sure Burns Stainless does, i'll take that over a backyard special manifold, which like i said earlier, would be probably fine, but I'm putting together a serious setup and I want every advantage I can get... tell ya what, when my manifold is done, you can send me something you made and we'll test them against each other to compare, see if you win that 1hp difference bet
I definitely understand the budget racer part but hey, gotta pay to play right...theres places to skimp and places not to, i personally feel intake/exhaust manifolds are overlooked a lot of the time and u lose a lot of "free" potential hp through those oversights shrug
08-23-2004, 07:28 PM
#15
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Pice of my True Race/Burns Collector/Manifold - work in prog.. (Toda Party)
You gotta remember, these collectors see alot of heat and abuse. The welds may not matter much for flow, but shitty welds on a backyard special manifold are much more likely to crack down the road. I use burns collectors on most of the stuff I build, they are some of the best stuff available.
08-23-2004, 07:36 PM
#16
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Re: Pice of my True Race/Burns Collector/Manifold - work in prog.. (tony1)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You gotta remember, these collectors see alot of heat and abuse. The welds may not matter much for flow, but shitty welds on a backyard special manifold are much more likely to crack down the road. I use burns collectors on most of the stuff I build, they are some of the best stuff available. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes but isn't most of that thin walled stuff geared more towards race cars (weight savings?). It seems most of the thin walled manifolds crack eventually anyways unless teh turbo/DP is supported. Is it really worth it on a street car?
</TD></TR></TABLE>Yes but isn't most of that thin walled stuff geared more towards race cars (weight savings?). It seems most of the thin walled manifolds crack eventually anyways unless teh turbo/DP is supported. Is it really worth it on a street car?
08-23-2004, 07:42 PM
#17
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Pice of my True Race/Burns Collector/Manifold - work in prog.. (Mpir3)
If you use the right material for high heat (321 stainless) and the right welding practices then you will have a very tough manifold. Depending on how far out the manifold sits from the head, it's probably not a bad idea to build a brace for it. Building a brace is nothing compared to the work involved in building a nice header so I just consider it part of the job. We even run braces on the thick walled race stuff. Heat, weight, and vibration can put alot of stress on any manifold.
08-23-2004, 07:42 PM
#18
Re: Pice of my True Race/Burns Collector/Manifold - work in prog.. (Toda Party)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Toda Party »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Not to be a dick, but what credentials do you have to assume that something would flow "just as well" ? I don't pretend to know much if anything at all about exhaust flow characteristics and this and that, but I'm sure Burns Stainless does, i'll take that over a backyard special manifold, which like i said earlier, would be probably fine, but I'm putting together a serious setup and I want every advantage I can get... tell ya what, when my manifold is done, you can send me something you made and we'll test them against each other to compare, see if you win that 1hp difference bet
I definitely understand the budget racer part but hey, gotta pay to play right...theres places to skimp and places not to, i personally feel intake/exhaust manifolds are overlooked a lot of the time and u lose a lot of "free" potential hp through those oversights shrug</TD></TR></TABLE>
I understand your points completely. I do build manifolds and have done a fair amount of reading in regards to turbo manifold design. I am no guru or expert but I sure to learn a lot from those that are.
There are only 2 major variables in that collector, the angle of each longitudinal cut and the relative angle these 2 cuts to each other. I could copy the angles of the burns collector and achieve the same results for pennies on the dollar.
You do NOT have to "pay to play" if you have skills, tools, and knowledge. If you have none of these then by all means get a job, and pay for someone thats does have these resources. That is the path most take and it is fine with me, in fact it pays my rent .
If i had the time I would love to copy your $1000 dollar manifold and dyno it against my $300 version. If you sponsor it I will though
BTW where is this mythical manifold you speak of? not built yet i take it.
Not to be a dick, but what credentials do you have to assume that something would flow "just as well" ? I don't pretend to know much if anything at all about exhaust flow characteristics and this and that, but I'm sure Burns Stainless does, i'll take that over a backyard special manifold, which like i said earlier, would be probably fine, but I'm putting together a serious setup and I want every advantage I can get... tell ya what, when my manifold is done, you can send me something you made and we'll test them against each other to compare, see if you win that 1hp difference bet
I definitely understand the budget racer part but hey, gotta pay to play right...theres places to skimp and places not to, i personally feel intake/exhaust manifolds are overlooked a lot of the time and u lose a lot of "free" potential hp through those oversights shrug</TD></TR></TABLE>
I understand your points completely. I do build manifolds and have done a fair amount of reading in regards to turbo manifold design. I am no guru or expert but I sure to learn a lot from those that are.
There are only 2 major variables in that collector, the angle of each longitudinal cut and the relative angle these 2 cuts to each other. I could copy the angles of the burns collector and achieve the same results for pennies on the dollar.
You do NOT have to "pay to play" if you have skills, tools, and knowledge. If you have none of these then by all means get a job, and pay for someone thats does have these resources. That is the path most take and it is fine with me, in fact it pays my rent
.If i had the time I would love to copy your $1000 dollar manifold and dyno it against my $300 version. If you sponsor it I will though
BTW where is this mythical manifold you speak of? not built yet i take it.
08-23-2004, 08:59 PM
#19
Re: Pice of my True Race/Burns Collector/Manifold - work in prog.. (Bailhatch)
my manifold wont be 1,000 dollars...i hope 
like i said, i just have the collector for now, i need to get my car to the shop to take measurements and start mocking up the rest of the mani/dp/wg dump etc..
anyone can copy something expensive.... its designing something original that is time consuming and expensive. if you did not have my collector to base something on, you'd have to a lot of R&D to get everything you mentioned and more right... runner length, collector design yadda yadda...i dont have the spare time, tools, or money to be testing out different manifold designs...shrug, whatever's clever, but like I said, i'm willing to take on your 1 hp difference bet between my manifold to be built vs something that you built...as long as its not a direct ripoff
like i said, i just have the collector for now, i need to get my car to the shop to take measurements and start mocking up the rest of the mani/dp/wg dump etc..
anyone can copy something expensive.... its designing something original that is time consuming and expensive. if you did not have my collector to base something on, you'd have to a lot of R&D to get everything you mentioned and more right... runner length, collector design yadda yadda...i dont have the spare time, tools, or money to be testing out different manifold designs...shrug, whatever's clever, but like I said, i'm willing to take on your 1 hp difference bet between my manifold to be built vs something that you built...as long as its not a direct ripoff
08-23-2004, 09:44 PM
#25
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Re: Pice of my True Race/Burns Collector/Manifold - work in prog.. (Toda Party)
the welds on that cage are beautiful..!!! i hope mine come out that nice..