jrharlow

I bought my first Honda car about a year ago, and already I am thinking about a performance build. I have a 1993 Civic EX 2 Dr. (D16Z6 engine.)I have done a lot of research and looking into building V-8's but never had the thought of building up a 4 banger. So that being said I need some help figuring out where to get parts. Searching the internet is getting frustrating and I have no idea where to go.

I haven't decided how far to go as far as power, but I want to build it right and build it to last. I want to upgrade the entire rotating assembly, crankshaft, bearing, rods, pistons, everything. Do a complete top end job and add a turbocharger. I can find most of these part, but I don't know names of reliable brand names, and I haven't been able to find many performance crankshafts.

Any thoughts, leads, ideas, suggestions are welcome.

grumblemarc

iTrader: (4)

Do a search. Nothing new to be done to these cars and all the information is already out there. Your problem is that you want to build for performance but haven't defined what the parameters of that "performance" is supposed to be. A recipe for time and money wasted and failed builds.

What you're suggesting is similar to going on a road trip with no destination. Prepare for a lot of aimless wandering.

jrharlow

Ok that's a fair point. I guess my problem is a lack of knowledge about how far you can push these engines. I have seen a 800 hp naturally aspirated pump gas chevy 454, but that's a whole different ball of wax. This engine is less than a quarter of the displacement of a 454. I want to do a forced induction build, is 350 hp an unreasonable number to shoot for? What about a 500 hp build? I would like to see a 10.5:1 compression ratio. Upgrade the cam, port and polish the head, performance intake manifold, upgraded fuel system, and a rotating assembly that is more than adequate for the amount of power. If its possible, bore out the engine 50 thousandths or so and stroke it.

grumblemarc

iTrader: (4)

350hp? Not all motor out of a D-series OR B-series (you posted in the All Motor forum you know). You're only getting those numbers out those platforms with forced induction and with the D-series you're looking for top and bottom end work needing done. Bottom end on a B-series just to be safe.

jrharlow

How do I go about choosing a turbo that will suite my application. I want to hit between 350 and 400 whp. I know those numbers mean an upgrade to the entire engine and drive train; that was my plan to start with. (New pistons, rods, bearings, upgraded cam, valve train, fuel system, port and polish and machined block.) I don't know all that much about turbochargers.

GagnarTheUnruly

iTrader: (3)

You can definitely achieve 350-400 whp with a turbocharger. However this is the all-motor (i.e. naturally aspirated) subforum. You should go the forced induction subforum. Start by searching. There are a LOT of people with ~350 hp builds you could copy.

jrharlow

Is there a better forum for this thread?

GagnarTheUnruly

iTrader: (3)

jrharlow

[QUOTE=However this is the all-motor (i.e. naturally aspirated) subforum.[/QUOTE]


Thanks for the correction I didn't know this was an N/A forum. The title makes a little more sense now. I figured it was about engine performance, N/A or not.

Again thanks for the direction I will look further into it. Sorry for the ignorance. I guess that's what I get for being the FNG.

jrharlow

Now that I have this thread in the correct forum, how do I go about choosing a turbo that will suite my application. I want to hit between 350 and 375 whp. I know those numbers mean an upgrade to the entire engine and drive train; that was my plan to start with. (New pistons, rods, bearings, upgraded cam, valve train, fuel system, port and polish and machined block.) I just don't know all that much about turbochargers at least when it comes to sizing for a particular application.

grumblemarc

iTrader: (4)

Read all the FAQs at the top of the forum.

low_n_loud_civic

You will find that most of your knowledge on V8's does not apply here. Although the obvious basic principles will, things like bore and stroke to a point are a waste of time on these engines. Most would ratyer turn up the boost than waste money stroking an engine. You will be suprised to find out what these engines DON'T need to make high horsepower. Stock cranks can make over double what the stock sleeves can hold.

For you conservative goals of 350-400whp all you need is forged rods and pistons for your turbo setup. Save your money budgeted for stroking, camshaft, port & polishing, ect for something else like a quality ball bearing turbo. Something along the lines of a GT3076R or even push a GT2871 to your goals.

It is always better to over compensate for your Injectors to keep the duty cycle less than 80-85%. So 1000cc (~98lbs) injectors and a Walbro 255lph pump would suffice. Pick out and EMS, there are plenty to choose from. Ask your tuner you have picked out to recommend a system. If you are tuning yourself then it will be a LONG road. I suggest you download a free tuning program and see if is for you. Hondata, CROME, and Neptune allow you to play with their software but only CROME you can actually tune with for free although not recommended.

If you plan on longevity then you will want to use as many OEM parts as possible including the crankshaft, OEM bearings, seals, gaskets, ect... A 4032 forged piston would be preferred as well over a 2618. So essentially Wiseco pistons and Eagle Rods (yuck) will suffice. As far as transmission is concerned, 100% stock internals is fine. If you find that you can't use your brain to control traction, then you may want to look at a LSD. For the clutch just be sure to get one rated for your torque goals. Pretty much any 6-puck design will do. If you decide to upgrade the flywheel, don't go any lower than about 12lbs for a daily, you will regret it.

For compression 10:1-10.5:1 would be the happy spot. It really depends on the fuel being used and turbo though. You don't want to go much bigger than 0.020" over for forced induction on stock sleeves. You must setup your build to work together from top to bottom and left to right. Basically choose a purpose and run with it till the end, design your entire car around the end purpose. To correctly pick a turbo there are formulas and things like compressor maps to help you get an idea of what range of turbos you need to choose. It really comes down to the powerband you want and how much you are willing to spend. I personally prefer the smallest turbo to reach my goals to keep the broadest powerband and most response.

To talk turbos in a nutshell the bigger the A/R on the compressor side the more CFM/lbs per min it flows. The bigger the A/R on the turbine side the more gases it takes to spin the wheel. It is a balancing act, you don't want one being too much different than the other unless you are trying to build a tractor or something haha. Just so you know PSI does not mean squat. The only thing you will use that for is to help be sure you are still on the efficiencey island of the map so you can choose the proper CFM turbo output or see if it suits your engine characteristics. But since there are enough builds and experience you can skip most of that BS anyways and just find a dyno sheet of a build similar to your goals and powerband wanted and copy that.

Most of the list you created while being uninformed is a complete waste of money. Most people also don't want to spoon feed as if you actually look around you will find thousands of builds just like yours already done and with what parts it was built with. Sorry for bouncing back and forth, but I am on my phone and kept scrolling up and down haha.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Lot more missing on that. A/R is only a 1/4 of the equation of what one needs to do when configuring the right turbocharger. there's no real "nutshell" about it. But the OP will figure that out eventually.

jrharlow

I am grateful for the info in your post, it is a great start.

Moving on:
I have done a lot of looking and I have found many builds like what I want to do. They almost always have an extensive parts list which is great if you want to copy a build. I want to "build" my build not just copy some one else's. I am seeking knowledge, that is why I am asking questions. So far I have found that usable information is in a lot of these threads, the problem I am having is sorting out and organizing this information into something usable. I am willing to read and do my research, I keep hearing terms like compressor maps (I have seen many but have no idea how to interpret the date they contain,) A/R ration (which I am beginning to understand,) trim (I think its the pitch of the impellors,) log/cast/equal length exhaust manifolds (I'm guessing different materials/construction processes,) t3, 4bolt, 5bolt, dsm (I'm not exactly sure what all these are or mean, I am guessing they are how the exhaust manifold bolts to the turbo/down-pipe.) I want to know why I should consider a GT3076R or a GT2871 turbo for my car. What is the math behind making a decision. I want to know why someone is using specific components and what are the components I need to look into to make my build be functional, reasonable reliable, cost efficient and a helluva lot of fun on the street and track. I want to be informed.

I don't expect a huge explanation on these subjects in this tread, simply, I am asking for direction as to where I should look for a lengthy explanation. Links to articles, threads or other resources I can use in my project.

Schister66

Starting this process can be tricky, especially when you dont know where/how to start. Here are a few things to ask yourself:

-What is my budget?
-What am I planning to use the car for?
-What are my power goals? (If you dont have any yet, that's ok)
-Is this car going to be my daily driver or dedicated "fun" car?
-Do you have a backup car?

People turbocharge cars for a variety of reasons and purposes, but until you know what you want, its difficult to develop a plan/strategy. You can use other builds as a guide, but remember that their setups are built for them...it may not suit your needs/wants. Lastly, I would suggest doing a lot of research on your own. The FAQ at the top of the page is full of good information. I suggest this because if you ignorantly follow the advice of others, god only knows where you'll end up...blind leading the blind

When you're researching, dont get tangled up with technical terms at first. It doesn't matter if you understand the complexities of how each and every part of a turbo function...for now, focus on the big picture, then delve into the details once you grasp basics

You're welcome to PM me with questions if necessary

jrharlow

In answer to your questions:

-What is my budget? I am willing to save and scrounge to be able to afford the parts I need to get my build as reliable as reasonably possible. I want to keep it as economical as possible, but at the same time I don't want to cheap out and end up paying two or three times what I should have.

-What am I planning to use the car for? Sleeper, weekend warrior, maybe take it to a car show.

-What are my power goals? (If you dont have any yet, that's ok) I want to see between 350 and 400 WHP and up to 300 ft/lbs of torque.

-Is this car going to be my daily driver or dedicated "fun" car? Its mostly for fun and performance, but it will see a little driving, mostly to work or to the track.

-Do you have a backup car? Yes I do.

jrharlow

I would like to know your opinion on Eagle Rods, I have hear great reviews and have friends that run them in their hot rods. In general what rods would you suggest I use?

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

He's done. Listen to him not. Eagle Rods will be fine.

As for the answers to your other questions that you had, you are still Way too vague. Budget means an actual $ amount, not what you're willing or not willing to do for your build.

Purpose is decently described, "shows" are not part of the discussion, as they required differing needs, than this build.

Schister66

If you're looking for 350-400whp like you stated, there's only a few ways to get to that power goal. For starters, you'll need to build the bottom end. You can go the economical route (LS rods/Vitara pistons) or the preferred route (FJT or Eagle rods/ CP, JE, Wiseco forged pistons).

Now that you've figured out an approximate power goal, you can start tailoring your setup to it. It isn't as simple as picking the 'correct' turbo and its done. The entire setup including the manifold, exhaust, charge piping, and turbo all have to function together to make an efficient setup. As a general rule to get you started in your search, turbos typically make 10hp per lb/ft of airflow; therefore, a 50lb/min turbo can theoretically make ~500hp at the edge of its efficiency range. For ~400whp, you'll want to look in the 48-54lb/min range...depending on fuel

JohnnyLawless1

@jrharlow see my sig,then go look up my old username signature, if you use that recipe i guarantee, you will have a constant grin on your face!!!!

good luck, have fun with it!!

jrharlow

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think I need to provide more information in order to get my question about what size turbo I should choose. If this is so I will have more posted soon.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

There are WAY too many choices on that one. Budget, need use, etc. Go ahead and provide more information and purpose of the car first, then the choices for turbochargers get narrowed down.