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Opinions requested: B16a gt3582 and pro 1 cams. Mid range & top-end possible?

Opinions requested: B16a gt3582 and pro 1 cams. Mid range & top-end possible?

 
Old 09-29-2018, 12:16 PM
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Default Opinions requested: B16a gt3582 and pro 1 cams. Mid range & top-end possible?

Hi to all
I have a b16 9:1 comp sleeved block and ferrea valvetrain I want to ask if there is someone to know if the engine is too small for this cams...my goal is better mid and top end than itr cams...
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Old 09-29-2018, 01:22 PM
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Default re: Opinions requested: B16a gt3582 and pro 1 cams. Mid range & top-end possible?

Depends on the rest of the setup IE which turbo manifold your using...but no the engine is not "too small"...B16's have been proven to put down crazy numbers up top not so much mid range. Dont think those cams will help mid range at all really just the top
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Old 09-29-2018, 06:53 PM
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Default re: Opinions requested: B16a gt3582 and pro 1 cams. Mid range & top-end possible?

A GT3582R? Yes , too small for mid-range power for such a big turbo, so you'll only get top end on 90% of the cases.

So, it's up to you
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Old 09-30-2018, 12:10 AM
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Default Re: Opinions requested: B16a gt3582 and pro 1 cams. Mid range & top-end possible?

Thank you all for your replyís...my goal is to spool a little faster the turbo and when I mean midrange I mean the rpms when I shift gears.revlimit is 9600
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Old 09-30-2018, 02:23 AM
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Default Re: Opinions requested: B16a gt3582 and pro 1 cams. Mid range & top-end possible?

as shodan stated no "midrange" on that turbo so forget about spool
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Old 09-30-2018, 03:27 AM
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Default Re: Opinions requested: B16a gt3582 and pro 1 cams. Mid range & top-end possible?

Probably is better to go with skunk ultra street from victor x??
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Old 09-30-2018, 04:38 AM
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Default Re: Opinions requested: B16a gt3582 and pro 1 cams. Mid range & top-end possible?

Anything that will increase over all power will increas spool also.. A b16 can rev to the moon if supported properly. What is mid range is subjective.. A b16 reving to 10 000 and midrange is consider 5-6000 rpm those cams will certanly do gains.. And if you boost under 30 psi it will do most of the increase at top end.

But I agree.. The best way is to increase engine volume but that was not what the thread starter asked.. To add a bigger stroke and volume will make the car overall easyer to drive.. I just descoverd that 650hp b16 is terrible to drive combined with a tilton twin disc. I bet a bigger motor would help ALOT.

With ITR cams you can max that turbo out at around 30 psi if you rev it propperly and with supported mods. If you increase VE and engine efficiancy with better cams the GT35R will not flow any more at a lower or higher boost level. If you change cams to PRO1 it will not do much if any at all for the top end even at a lower boost level. But there will be some ganins at lower rpm and a bit faster spool.. My guess is it will spool around 500rpm sooner. You have to look at the turbos compressor map and compare it to your setup to se what it will do for you at the top end.
Plenty of people is having good results and have good luck with the pro 1 cams.. I have trouble trusting skunk 2 cams with my expensive and built engine and would look at web, kelford or maybe GSC for cams if I would buy new ones today. I have seen too many broken skunk 2 cams.

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Old 09-30-2018, 05:05 AM
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Default Re: Opinions requested: B16a gt3582 and pro 1 cams. Mid range & top-end possible?

Wow you help a lot...
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Old 09-30-2018, 10:16 AM
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Default Re: Opinions requested: B16a gt3582 and pro 1 cams. Mid range & top-end possible?

Originally Posted by fotis2000 View Post
Hi to all
I have a b16 9:1 comp sleeved block and ferrea valvetrain I want to ask if there is someone to know if the engine is too small for this cams...my goal is better mid and top end than itr cams...
Whats your hp target?
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Old 09-30-2018, 11:15 AM
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Default Re: Opinions requested: B16a gt3582 and pro 1 cams. Mid range & top-end possible?

Balor_gr I donít know about that but I want to take the maximum of this turbo now with edelbrock and itr cams the car is pretty fast but I need a little bit more around 7000-7500
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Old 09-30-2018, 11:59 AM
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Default Re: Opinions requested: B16a gt3582 and pro 1 cams. Mid range & top-end possible?

Whats your turbo manifld style and turbine housing a/r ?
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Old 09-30-2018, 12:00 PM
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Default Re: Opinions requested: B16a gt3582 and pro 1 cams. Mid range & top-end possible?

Low compression combined with small displacement is definitely going to be what kills you here.

The Pro1's would certainly help a bit with spool and top end (you'd likely start seeing gains around 7K+, as you mentioned), but any impact they'd have under that would be minimal if noticeable at all.

Skunk2 Ultra Street may benefit you a bit but based on the rest of your setup I highly doubt it would be worth the investment. The "meat" of your powerband is going to stay in the 6500+ region regardless.
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Old 09-30-2018, 12:04 PM
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Default Re: Opinions requested: B16a gt3582 and pro 1 cams. Mid range & top-end possible?

Ramhorn 48mm and 0.82a/r
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Old 09-30-2018, 12:22 PM
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Default Re: Opinions requested: B16a gt3582 and pro 1 cams. Mid range & top-end possible?

tuner 1s would be a better choice in my opinion. They maintain smaller primary lobes so you would have more low end power and better fuel economy
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Old 09-30-2018, 01:58 PM
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Default Re: Opinions requested: B16a gt3582 and pro 1 cams. Mid range & top-end possible?

Either GSC T1 or Kelford 176-T they will help with mid range a lot. They both have big lobes Off vtec. But idle will be scary.
Other than that if you want 500whp max .63 a/r will help with response a LOT​​​​​​.
​​​​Another way is to get GTX3076 gen2 compressor / backplate / housing to make your turbo GTX3576 gen 2 .
Also you can tell the tuner to use lower ignition timing to have more fire on the manifold. That paired with more lean afr.
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Old 10-01-2018, 01:41 AM
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Default Re: Opinions requested: B16a gt3582 and pro 1 cams. Mid range & top-end possible?

Another way if you hit full boost around 6500 rpm and you have the required option from the ecu/fuel/good boost controller is to
go for bigger boost target at that mid range rpm and lower back to normal boost at higher rpm.
For example if you hit target hp with 1.7 bar:
Target booost at 6500 2.2 bar
Target booost at 6700 2.1 bar
Target booost at 6900 2 bar
Target booost at 7100 1.9 bar
Target booost at 7300 1.8 bar
Target boost at 7500 to 9600 1.7bar.
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Old 10-01-2018, 02:36 AM
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Default Re: Opinions requested: B16a gt3582 and pro 1 cams. Mid range & top-end possible?

My boost goal is 2.2 to 2.3 with 100ron and c5 I have already do this with boost by rpm and not help so much...my tuner say the best solution is to go with skunk2 ultra street.
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Old 10-01-2018, 03:24 AM
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Default Re: Opinions requested: B16a gt3582 and pro 1 cams. Mid range & top-end possible?

Originally Posted by fotis2000 View Post
My boost goal is 2.2 to 2.3 with 100ron and c5 I have already do this with boost by rpm and not help so much...my tuner say the best solution is to go with skunk2 ultra street.
That won't help with finding more midrange power
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Old 10-01-2018, 03:33 AM
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Default Re: Opinions requested: B16a gt3582 and pro 1 cams. Mid range & top-end possible?

You have an example about that???You have dyno back to back victor x vs skunk ultra street???
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Old 10-01-2018, 03:41 AM
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Default Re: Opinions requested: B16a gt3582 and pro 1 cams. Mid range & top-end possible?

176-T or even better GSC T1 will give much better results from a manifold change at 7000 rpm at 2.3 bar and a 600-700 hp turbo ITR cams are on the small side.
Especialy if you allready have victor X.
What rpm you hit full boost?
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Old 10-01-2018, 03:47 AM
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Default Re: Opinions requested: B16a gt3582 and pro 1 cams. Mid range & top-end possible?

Around 6600 full boost but after 7500 you feel all the power...if you see the info from victor x you can see it work 7000-10000 and is 100% real my tuner has big experience on this set up...
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Old 10-01-2018, 07:49 AM
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Default Re: Opinions requested: B16a gt3582 and pro 1 cams. Mid range & top-end possible?

I'm cutting to the best parts of each viewpoint, because all of the viewpoints here have merit.... Although not to the degree that fotis2000 is looking for. Regardless of Intake manifold used. The bottom line is, that although additional torque can be gained with more RPM if more power can be made by the engine; however, that amount of torque and where in the torque curve where new results can be had are not realistically going to be discovered by camshaft and intake manifold alone. The best way to gain that is through additional displacement. The old saying of "Turbos are the replacement for displacement" is true, but only to a certain degree depending upon what you're looking for out of what your currently have. I'm only stating that without changing actual displacement, you're looking at only smaller shifts in the torque curve by only changing camshafts. The intake manifold branding is not as important as much as the type of manifold you have. Going Victor X vs. UltraStreet isn't going to change a whole lot due to their design. (Larger plenum, shorter, large volume runners made for top end)

Originally Posted by fotis2000 View Post
my goal is to spool a little faster the turbo and when I mean midrange I mean the rpms when I shift gears.revlimit is 9600
Answer to this is already there.

Originally Posted by The sweed View Post
But I agree.. The best way is to increase engine volume but that was not what the thread starter asked.. To add a bigger stroke and volume will make the car overall easyer to drive.. I just descoverd that 650hp b16 is terrible to drive combined with a tilton twin disc.

......... If you increase VE and engine efficiancy with better cams the GT35R will not flow any more at a lower or higher boost level. If you change cams to PRO1 it will not do much if any at all for the top end even at a lower boost level. But there will be some ganins at lower rpm and a bit faster spool.. My guess is it will spool around 500rpm sooner. You have to look at the turbos compressor map and compare it to your setup to se what it will do for you at the top end.
mmmmm. Not really with a PRO1. More output of peak power than a Type R camshaft, absolutely, more torque and faster spool on a mid-framed sized turbocharger like a GT35R; no. not at all.


Originally Posted by Chance EG View Post
Low compression combined with small displacement is definitely going to be what kills you here.

The Pro1's would certainly help a bit with spool and top end (you'd likely start seeing gains around 7K+, as you mentioned), but any impact they'd have under that would be minimal if noticeable at all.

Skunk2 Ultra Street may benefit you a bit but based on the rest of your setup I highly doubt it would be worth the investment. The "meat" of your powerband is going to stay in the 6500+ region regardless.
Exactly my point that I stated in the beginning of my response. Your investment in changing intake manifold and camshafts on the B16 using a GT35R isn't going to give the change in engine behaviour you're looking for, without an actual change in displacement.

Originally Posted by fotis2000 View Post
Around 6600 full boost but after 7500 you feel all the power...if you see the info from victor x you can see it work 7000-10000 and is 100% real my tuner has big experience on this set up...
Yes. You're correct ont that. On top-end drag race style setups, your tuner has experience in this area. But for creating a broader powerband and larger torque curve, your tuner seems a little less experienced in this area by recommending going to something like an Ultra-Street, especially with a turbocharger that's over 61lbs/min on 1595cc.

If you're trying to stay over 650whp with better overall torque, and better rpm range to drive the car, you're best bet is really to increase bore/stroke displacement. Either way, your current setup is going to behave like a "light switch" with either intake manifold or camshaft.
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Old 10-01-2018, 08:15 AM
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Default Re: Opinions requested: B16a gt3582 and pro 1 cams. Mid range & top-end possible?

Ok if I put a ultra street you think the dyno graph will be the same????in the same boost??
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Old 10-01-2018, 10:09 AM
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Default Re: Opinions requested: B16a gt3582 and pro 1 cams. Mid range & top-end possible?

I tuned a b16 that was 84mm with a skunk2 pro series manifold, it does the same thing at 7500+ it comes alive allot more from 7500-9500, it's the nature of the short stroke beast lol. If you want more power lower longer stroke is your answer or using the quick spool feature on s300 also makes a massive difference in the mid range, along with more boost tapering off like Baylor said. The quick spool (if your not using it yet) will make the single largest cheapest difference on your setup. It keeps the pwm at 100% to keep the wg fully closed till the targeted boost for quick spool is reached.
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Old 10-01-2018, 11:02 AM
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Default Re: Opinions requested: B16a gt3582 and pro 1 cams. Mid range & top-end possible?

What cams and turbo had?
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