CRXherbie91

AFTER READING EVERYTING, IF YOU DO, MY MAIN QUESTION IS ABOUT THE T3/T60 TURBO IS AT THE BOTTOM, I REALLY NEED SOME INPUT ON THIS TURBO BY PEOPLE WHO USE IT, PLEASE GIVE ME A HAND... EVEN IF YOU SCAN TO THE BOTTOM AND READ THE QUESTIONS ABOUT THE TURBO AND GIVE ME SOME HANDS ON ADVICE ABOUT THAT TURBO IF I SHOULD UPGRADE TO THAT OR KEEP MY 57 TRIM OR GO TO A T3/T4 60TRIM .63.. BUT I REALLY WANT 500 WHP.. PLEASE CHIME IN AN TELL ME WHAT I SHOULD DO/CHANGE TO REACH MY GOAL


So far my setup is as followed BLOCK:
b16 block, bored out to 81.50 with CP 9:1 compression pistons
Eagle Rods
All OEM oil pump, water pump, Timing Belt, Bottom End gasket kit,
MFactory Oil adaptor Plate
and the rest is all oem parts
ACL Bearings

HEAD:
Full valve train, valves, springs, retainers, guides, and will be installing new seals when i take it to machin shop
So far GSR Cams, on the look out for CTR or ITR preferably CTR Cams
Victor X intake manifold
880cc Injectors
Golden Eagle Fuel Rail
Stock Throttle Body (May upgrade if i find enough proof or info that its worth it, alot of ppl regret them
Will be takin to machine shop to be cleaned/hot tanked and new valve seals installed to take away wear and tear

Turbo Set-Up:
Peak Boost Set-up FTW Kit (Ramhorn Manifold)
PWR intercooler 600whp supportable
44mm Wastegate and dumptube to go with it
3 inch downpipe w/ full 3 inch thermal exhaust to go with it
T3/T4 57 Trim Turbo with i believe stage 3 exhaust wheel
slimfan it comes with
Tial BOV
all charge pipes etc..

But this motor is a B16, at first my goal was 400-450, but recently i been thinking and i would really like to make about 500 WHP, my tuner thinks i will make low to mid 400's it would make me happy, but i would really like to get 500, and im thinking its because of the turbo, the turbo is brand new still in the box never opened, im going to try to get in contact with the company and see if they will return it and let me pay the difference, the only thing i like about my turbo is that it reach's full boost at 4000 rpm's which is good for short/street races, but what do you guys think about the t3/60 turbo with .63 A/R if i were to get that turbo and run GSR cam's do you think i could get 500whp or would i still need CTR cam's.. i really want a set of CTR's to begin with, but im budget is running low and if i can return my unopened turbo and get the t3/60 .63 A/R do you think i can make 500 whp.. but read over my set up.. what should i change in my set up to reach my 500whp goal? ... everything is set up for 600whp except the turbo max's out at around 450-500 depending on the other bolt on's which everything else looks good..

MY MAIN QUESTIONS I HAVE IS ABOUT:::: Is about the t3/60 .63 A/R if i get one of those, when would i start hitting boost and reach full boost, i was told buy peakboost i should hit full boost at around 4000 rpm's with my t3/t4 57 trim which is pretty low and i like the sound of that, but i could handle a little more RPM's beings i will be using a B16 transmission which has short gears.. please put in your input... if this was your setup, what would you change to hit 500whp or as close as you possibly can.. i was thinking if i found a set of type r's that would help alot, or i jus used the GSR's and tried to return my unopened turbo and pay the difference for the t3/60 .63 A/R i would hit my goal.. IF YOU RUN A T3/60 .63AR TURBO COULD YOU PLEASE CHIME IN AND LET ME KNOW YOUR SPOOL TIMES LIKE WHERE IT STARTS TO SPOOL AND REACH'S FULL BOOST? I AM VERY INTERESTED IN THIS TURBO, BUT THIS A STREET/SOMETIMES TRACK CAR, I WANT TO REACH FULL BOOST ASAP.. but at the same time i have a short geared transmission once i hit boost ill always be in it im assuming, this is my first turbo build i would really like 500whp.. so pleast let me know what you think about the t3/60 .63AR turbo and its spool times and power made with it.

littlewagon

I wish I could help answer your questions. I know several people on here could, but your post is huge and you mention the same things over and over again. Cut it short and ask your questions once each if you expect responses.
Just a suggestion.

BrandonR

Why post this? Later, BR

TimKennard

not sure the T3/60 with .63AR is the right 500 HP turbo for you. below are two dyno graphs of the same motor with different turbo setups. manifolds are different too.

b16 81.5mm bore stock sleeves
gsr cams
t3/60 .63AR
revhard cast iron log
2.5" exhaust
stock intake mani
15 psi of boost



same motor but with ramhorn turbo mani, skunk2 intake mani, precision 6262sp, and 3" exhaust



i would personally change to a bigger turbo for a 500 hp goal. also, if on stock sleeves, i prob wouldn't go past 400 hp. just my opinion. i hit 400 hp at 20 psi on race gas on my latest setup. that is as far as i am willing to go until i can get a sleeved bottom end.

redflaredcrx90

get a gt3076r

bigb16

I'm a 57trim Peakboost ramhorn kit guy as well. In my opinion I think it's good for 500 on the dynapack my car has been tuned on...on race gas. I made over 400 on 18psi with 93 octane. With 30psi and q16, 500 should be possible. If you want room to grow then try to exchange your turbo before it's too late. I'll find out myself next season what a basic Garrett t3/t4 57trim .63 a/r journal bearing is capable of on race gas next season when i get a built head on it.

Here are the specs of my build (pretty similar to yours):
-Head:
Stock B16a2
Stock B16 Cams
Blox intake manifold


-Block:
Stock sleeve B16a2
JE pistons 81.5mm 9:1 CR
SCAT rods
Cometic HG
OEM Honda bearings
ARP head and main studs
ITR oil pump
Block guard
Greddy oil catch can


-Turbo Setup:
Peakboost Turbo Kit consisting of
Garrett t3/t4 57 trim w/ .63 a/r hotside
Ramhorn manifold
Tial 38mm Wastegate
Tial 50mm Bov
3" SS DP into Thermal 3" catback


-Fueling/Management:
Hondata S300
RC 750cc Saturated injectors
Walbro 255lph pump
GM 3 bar map sensor
B&M adjustable fuel pressure regulator

99V-unit

I got a turbo for you, fun and cheap. Garrett t3/60-1 .70ar with .63a/r ex. Should be more than enough for 500whp and fun all around turbo.
I have it on my b16 with 8:3 srp pistons, b16 automatic cams, aebs manifold stock ls throttle body spooling perfom manifold 3inch downpipe and i made 371whp at 13psi e85 with bad valve adjustment(didn't even get to finish tune because valve adjustment got really messed up, making noise).
No i got victor x manifold, gsr cams and shooting for 500whp on e85.

I have a friend who ran 25psi on the t3/t4 turbo 57trim on e85 with 84mm b16 with cams and ported head and made 466whp. So you will deff have to push 30psi to get 500.

non-VTEC

the 57-trim "may" reach 500whp on the B16 but it will be pushed passed it's efficiency to achieve that power.

the 60-1 would get you to 500whp no problem and it's not much more expensive than the 57-trim t3/t04.

as for full boost before 4000rpm? you cant have 500whp and full boost before 4krpm....not a chance....especially on a B16.......

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

The 57 trim will NOT get 500whp for any extended period of time during your powerband at all. Even if it does, as quoted above it will be passed the efficiency of that turbocharger and you'll simply be blowing hot air into the system.

The 60-1 standard garrett turbo with the 2.559" stage 3 wheel (that's how it comes) will not do much better than 57 trim, but it will get to 500whp. I recommend simply going up a bit to something that uses a larger exhaust wheel in the 60-1 or even better, the 61mm GT35R compressor wheel found in the SC61 (Precision only) ,GT3540S, GT3540E, etc. It would be worth the additional cost in your kit to upgrade rather than try to push a turbo that far.

turbospoolin

yea it be nice if you could get full boost before or at 4k lol my civic is at full boost at about 5800 anything before that is just motor lol but i have a gt35r duel bb turbo tho

dcmatt

iTrader: (7)

Like someone else said your not gonna hit 500 and have a super fast spool. What is your main goal? Drag car or just a fun DD?I would think the 57 trim would be fun on the street and would get you over 400. But if your set on hitting 500 id listen to the shodan. Or maybe take a look at the precision snails. Lots of different sizes to pick from.

exgr

gonna bump this old thread... since i'm dreaming up a turbo road racing b16a setup... i asked Geoff @ Full-Race to do a setup for me, he asked me:

"Frank can you email me full details from max engine rpm hp target max boost target fuel used and max altitude"

so i gave it some thought and wrote this:

i imagine that to get 520 bhp @ 8500 rpm would be 325 ft-lbs @ 8500 rpm. so lets say max torque could be something like 350 ft-lbs @ 7500, max rev 9500 rpm, max boost lets say 30 psi we can use e85. note this is completely arbitrary in my head. if needed we'll use a proper road racing fuel. what would that be? VP C16? max altitude i expect should be less than 2500 feet (Willow Springs).

lets see Geoff work his magic. :-)

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Heh. My Jedi skills will easily defeat that Sith Lord.

Better question. With all that info, tell me what circuits you plan to run (Gingerman, VIR, The Glen, Buttonwillow, etc). Betcha he never asked you that .

exgr

Ha ha... well, mostly California tracks for now. Who know, might have to hit up GTA calendar in 2017... we'll see how this goes. But neither one of you asked about my gearing so I'll assume I still know more than you two.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Your gearing is B16. With all the other massive info that you gave in one big paragraph, if you had something unique you would have stated it anyway, or at least asked if it mattered.



BTW you're supposed to know your setup more than us. We're not driving this bad boy. In addition, you'll NEVER use 500whp on those tracks, (Neither Button's short or long courses or Leguna Seca, though you can use about 400whp there) nor is such a high boost pressure needed in order to do it.

You want to stay in smaller turbocharger categories, like a GTX2867R, or STC Rogue on the smaller side, with more responsivenes in the lower rpm range. The EFR choice would be a EFR6758. For slightly larger for the longer courses at Sec, I suggest either a GTX3067R (not the GTX3076R, that's too big), or an STC Banshee (similar to a EFR7064) at the largest for a B16.

Those are off the top of my head. I'm a realist on the circuit, and 500whp on an attack like that isn't going to make any sense unless you have serious experience with a turbo FWD platform. (Not to assume that you don't have that experience, but again, most people would have said if they did, if they had.)

Geoff is going to go too large, of course, by recommending only an EFR7064 or EFR7670, and it would be too large to do it on a B16

gabocastano

What are the specs of the STC Rogue and Banshee? Couldn't find them on the STC page.

exgr

I'm going to have to watch my budget... this build will be max efficiency build - while I will be no longer using "ghetto/budget" parts I'm still very budget conscientious and will go for best bang for the buck products. My problem is before I go to the 400-500 whp turbo power I still want play with all motor b16a some more. delly will become the dyno queen once again as I attempt to break 200 whp in the next few weeks with minimal parts throw at it. we'll see.

as for power needed at BW, you'd be surprised. as some famous f1 driver once said, you can never have too much power. all the top 3 FWD Honda cars are turbo. all are easily above 400 whp. Chris B's EK Couple has what, over 600 whp and set the Street FWD class time of 1:52's last year. that's the record I aim to break with delly. I will have a smaller and lighter package. on paper i have a good chance.

exgr

after looking at the new Garrett GTX Gen 2 chart I'm picking for myself the GTX3076R with 1.06 AR divided T3 twin scroll housing.
It should easily get me 325-375 whp on 91 oct. and 450-500 whp (maybe more) on E85.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

I just warned you not to do that. That is way too large a turbine housing that is DIVIDED (NOT TWIN SCROLL) matched with too large a compressor and housing for what you're doing. You'll make 375whp, but basically an '83 dodge Omni well out-accelerate you. Look at what I stated. The other turbos are there just have to look a little harder

97hb

I made 461whp and 401wtq on a 57trim. I know it was maxxed out, but it was fun. Highest I have seen on here for a 57trim was speed factory d series made 10 more whp then me, 471whp. You could spend more money, or enjoy what you have.

pogeeboy27

iTrader: (3)

I sure hope the rest of your car is up to the task of handling your power goals, especially since you will be road racing and that fact you mentioned you are budget conscious. Best of luck with your build. Post pictures of your progress if possible.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Well, exactly. He's still looking at the power level, and not the power level for the purpose intended (road racing), in order be some sort of urban "road warrior" , still wants to have that in road racing. There's more to this than simply "turning the boost down" if he needs, because if he gets the wrong turbocharger, he'll simply be out of its efficiency range in the lower boost pressure levels anyway.

But, only he can clarify his statements, we can't do it for him, ya know?

2kdrift

what rpm you hit full boost? what engine/manifold?

exgr

what chu talking about willis? the turbo is being sized for the power i need to win the class, which is about 450-500 whp. using E85, probably not the best racing fuel but it's a good compromise on a budget. i also want to test out hondata's flex fuel kit fully and see if can really work well for daily use. the manifold being discussed by Geoff and I is this one:











Bottom mount would be good for my application since low(er) CG is always desirable. One thing I worry about is I plan to dry sump the car eventually (I've got a brand new Mugen baffled pan to be installed for now)... This manifold powered Jason Hunt's CRX to many records literally decade ago. Notice from the Full-Race web page it says:

"Honda/Acura B-Series Bottom Mount Twin Scroll Turbo Manifold

Full-Race’s legendary Twinscroll header, redesigned for more compact fitments and EFR compatibility for 2012. The Twinscroll bottom mount has evolved as an option for those looking to use twinscroll in 88-91 EF civics, 92-95 EG civics that want air filters and Drag racers looking to lower their CG. Ideal for use with BorgWarner S200SX, S300SX and S400SX turbos with external WG configuration."

wow how many of you knew about this redesign in 2012? I used to think Geoff and Full-Race was a bit full of themselves (even though I know Geoff from when he was still back in ASU)... but if you look back in history, Full-Race truly IS the most innovative turbo manifold manufacturer in USA. They revolutionized the industry. Geoff tells me they hardly sell anymore Honda manifolds. I understand they are pricy but man, if you love what they have done for the industry, next time you are shopping try to SUPPORT THE OG's SUPPORT THE TRUE INNOVATORS. **** all the copy cat companies they really are the cancer of this industry. Geoff tells me he feels I'm too late to the turbo game I should've done this 13 years ago (about the time when he started Full-Race). I don't feel the same way, turbo has improved so much in the last 5 years or so, and so has all the electronics. NOW is the perfect time for me to truly get into it. Flex fuel, E85, boost by gear, twinscroll... etc. etc. I'm ******* loving all this coming from pure all motor background. Believe it or not folks this is my very first turbo build ever. LOL.

exgr

Are you really going to question Geoff's choice?!?! LMAO. His cars powered some of the fastest Time Attack turbo cars all over the world. SSE Evo, Tilton Interiors, Nemo, in USA he powered Mark Jager... The setup he recommend many years was the disco potato. But that was a while ago. Depending on if I can get discounts I will go with Garrett, or maybe EFR.

ps, why does that chart look familiar? could it be because it ripped/updated from my OG site Powered By Honda's tranny chart? lol.