boostedh22lude1

give me ur opinions on my build,im on a budgetso this is all i can afford, ive got a h22a im going to run male pistons, eagle rods, stock crcank stock cyl head, t3/t4 turbo, 880 inj., 255 walbro pump, and pharable chipped ecu, im going to run 14 psi any suggestions on what else i should do thanks.

Joseph Davis

You need a fresh oil pump.

You need tuning.

boostedh22lude1

im going to take the pump apart and check the clearance but it should be fine the motor had 40k on it when i pulled it, i origenaly boosted it stock 25psi but it only lasted about 1500 niles before the ring glands went

boostedh22lude1

that 5 psi not 25 sorry

boostedh22lude1

bump people

boostedh22lude1

bump

Schister66

I'm not sure what you're looking for with this thread...also, 14psi doesn't tell us anything about your power goal which makes giving you accurate information a little tough

boostincoupe

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boostedh22lude1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">im going to take the pump apart and check the clearance but it should be fine the motor had 40k on it when i pulled it, i origenaly boosted it stock 25psi but it only lasted about 1500 niles before the ring glands went</TD></TR></TABLE>

If you can't afford to just drop the ~$80-100 on a new OEM oil pump, you're not ready to build the motor.

There's a difference between having the money in your bank account to cover the cost of the parts, and having the capital to maintain a built turbo Honda when it breaks down.

Take your original budget and double it, <u>then</u> start building your motor.

boostedh22lude1

i dont need a new pump there is nothing wrong with my pump now. and all im asking is for opinions on my build.

boostincoupe

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boostedh22lude1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i dont need a new pump there is nothing wrong with my pump now. and all im asking is for opinions on my build.</TD></TR></TABLE>

*sigh*

There's a reason I told you to double your budget for your build, because it's a lot more than just the retail cost of parts. Here's a further breakdown:

- Buy a new OEM Honda oil pump, water pump, headgasket, timing belt, tensioner, and tensioner spring. Price: ~$400

- Take your block to a competent machine shop for the bore/hone/deck. Have the crank inspected and micropolished. There are some things you don't want done for cheap, and machine work, build parts and assembly are great examples. Price: ~$200-400

- Take your block to a competent engine builder. Some machine shops also do good assembly work, but ask around for local references. A good builder will properly size your bearings and (hopefully) suggest you run OEM Honda bearings. Which you should. Price: ~$300-700

- Pick up some ARP headstuds. No brainer there. Price: ~$100

- Buy a really good, slightly overkill clutch for your setup. Because you'll want more power later...invest now. Also take your flywheel to said competent machine shop for a resurfacing. Price: ~$400-450

- Talk to your engine builder about what OEM Honda gaskets and seals you need to purchase before assembly. They aren't cheap, but they're worth it if you want minimal problems and no leaks. Price: ~$100

- Invest in a wideband. Even if you're not a tuner, it's good to have in your car because you can keep track of at least the AFR's when the car's running on the street. If you spot it running overly lean or rich, you can potentially save your motor. Price: ~$300

- Buy an oil pressure gauge if you don't already have one, it can also be a lifesaver for your motor. Price: ~$50

- Get the head re-surfaced as well, so you have a guaranteed seal for your headgasket. Price: ~$50

- Look into a vented valve cover setup with AN fittings, to help vent the motor and help out the longevity of the ring seal, etc. Price: ~$250

- Budget for street AND dyno tuning. It isn't cheap, and it's not something you want done for cheap - EVER! And no, it almost never takes only 1-2 hours to tune a car. Plan a day off from work. Price: ~$200-500

- Ask/shop around A LOT before deciding on a machine shop, engine builder and tuner. Don't worry about offending people by inquiring and not ending up going with their service - in the end it's your motor, your money and your call.

Expect to spend AT LEAST $3,000-4,000 on this build depending on your level of mechanical skill. If you're having a shop do it...then ~1.5x that amount.

That's all I've got for now, but I'm sure there's PLENTY more to consider. Good luck, and welcome to tEh suck!


Modified by boostincoupe at 12:54 PM 1/26/2008

boostedh22lude1

i am a mechanic, i know i need tbelt headgasket ect. im just looking for opinions on the setup as far as the pistons,rods ect. i will be installing/building the motor myself and i know how to measure bearing clearance that stuff is not what im asking, my budget is just on the parts i listed like the pharable chipped ecu cause i dont have the money for hondata geting the blocked sleeved thats why im going to run the mahle pistons right now,im just wondering if anyone has ran the pistons and rod setup on an unsleeved block and how many psi they ran without any problems,

boostincoupe

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boostedh22lude1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i am a mechanic, i know i need tbelt headgasket ect. im just looking for opinions on the setup as far as the pistons,rods ect. i will be installing/building the motor myself and i know how to measure bearing clearance that stuff is not what im asking, my budget is just on the parts i listed like the pharable chipped ecu cause i dont have the money for hondata geting the blocked sleeved thats why im going to run the mahle pistons right now,im just wondering if anyone has ran the pistons and rod setup on an unsleeved block and how many psi they ran without any problems,</TD></TR></TABLE>

Oh...well that's a very different and more specific question that what you originally asked (general opinions on your setup).

Mahle pistons are your only option with the FRM sleeves I think, so you're kinda stuck with them if you're not sleeving your block.

Go with Crome Pro if you don't have the $$$ for Hondata. The Phearable chipped ECU is just an ECU, not an engine management program. You put the engine management of your choice (Crome, Hondata, Neptune, etc) in the chipped ECU.

boostedh22lude1

the ecu is an ems i send in my vehicle specs and they set me a base map as best as they can, i know its not going to be tuned well but it will work for a few months, whats ur opinion on the pistons do they work well, or is there problems with higher boost.

Joseph Davis

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boostedh22lude1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i dont need a new pump there is nothing wrong with my pump now. and all im asking is for opinions on my build</TD></TR></TABLE>

Newsflash, you have an H-series bottom oilling pile of **** that absolutely loves to consume it's own bottom end starting with the oil pump. You need a new oil pump, end of story, and if you are dealling with a closed deck 50mm main failure block you should sell it and grab an A4 block with the 55mm mains. These engines are 8 years old at the newest - 8 years times the average 12K miles per year equals 96K mile oil pump is the average for the newest H22A4 out there... ten bucks says you're dealing with something a lot older. YES IT NEEDS AN OIL PUMP. Any fresh engine needs an oil pump. Welcome to engine building 101.

I've tuned more turbo H22 in the last year that you will own 4 cyls that break the 300 whp mark in the next decade. Two of the cars are local to me: one is on it's second oil pump, the other I get to retune next month as it's got a fresh sleeved bottom end to replace the TT/Mahle A1 block that dies when his oil pump **** the bed. Turbo H-series are awesome and have endless torque when they run right, but they are very much not a strong engine.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boostedh22lude1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the ecu is an ems i send in my vehicle specs and they set me a base map as best as they can, i know its not going to be tuned well but it will work for a few months</TD></TR></TABLE>

Not even remotely.

This isn't a MAF car that meters the airmass entering the engine and can compensate to a large extent across a broad operating range, this is a MAP aka speed density car whose tune is slaved to the volumetric efficiency of one particular setup it's tuned for and won't work real well on another setup. There's an incredible amount of variance in the speed density tune from one engine to the next due to turbine sizing, manifold dynamics, mechanical timing differences due to milling/decking, injector latency, ground quality/wiring harness, compression ratio, charge pipe sizing and length, exhaust sizing and length and muffler design, etc. What you are buying is called a basemap for a reason; it is fit to warm the engine up and check for leaks, and maybe drive like your grandmother to a tuner if you made the poor judgement call of not buying a AAA Gold card the day you decided to build a turbo car out of aftermarket parts.

Sorry to be a dick but I'm trying to get your attention. You may be a bright guy with some solid skill with wrenches but I've been doing this a long time and I've seen every mistake you're about to make multiple times. You are unfamiliar with the peculiarities of the motor you are trying to build, you are unfamiliar with Engine Builder 101 aka every fresh bottom end needs a fresh oil pump, and you've read the word "tuning" in a magazine and somehow developed the horrible misconception that it can be mail ordered.

There's a lot more going on underhood that working on stock cars will prepare you for... you are under some sort of assumption that if you bolt it all together correctly it will run. Uhm, no, you'll have a pile of teething problems and sorting issues before it's remotely reliable, and that's overlooking the tuning aspect.

Maxcapacity

I have the Mahle pistons eagle rod combo in my b18c w/ 15psi, I built the block myself, just got a rebuilt oilpump from lordco eh. Have had zero problems , 27,000kms still runs awsome and fast, used all new oem honda seals, bearings, hd gskt, micropolished crank..all with zero machining what luck...except for a good honing and jet wash.

stiffdogg06

Bore
Hone
Deck to True
Balance, Polish Crank
Spec Main Bearing Clearances & Adjust
Spec Rod Bearing Clearances & Adjust
Spec Crank End Play
Piston to Wall Clearance
Gap Rings
Blueprint Motor
Installation of Rear Main Seals, Oil Pump
Set Timing
Installation of Timing
Bolt Head to Block
Lash Valves
CP Pistons
OEM Water Pump
OEM Timing Belt
ARP Head Studs
ACL Bearings (Rod, Main, Thrustwasher)
Cometic Head Gasket
OEM Oil Pump
OEM Bottom End Gasket
Eagle Rods
Disassemble Motor
Remove/Install Motor
Removal/Installation of Turbo Parts

For Slow Motion in Columbus to do that for me cost me, $3,827. Still waiting for TPR to get back to me though to see if they can beat that price.

That doesn't involve me upgrading turbo parts, electronics, or any kind of maintenance.

boostincoupe

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by stiffdogg06 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Bore
Hone
Deck to True
Balance, Polish Crank
Spec Main Bearing Clearances & Adjust
Spec Rod Bearing Clearances & Adjust
Spec Crank End Play
Piston to Wall Clearance
Gap Rings
Blueprint Motor
Installation of Rear Main Seals, Oil Pump
Set Timing
Installation of Timing
Bolt Head to Block
Lash Valves
CP Pistons
OEM Water Pump
OEM Timing Belt
ARP Head Studs
ACL Bearings (Rod, Main, Thrustwasher)
Cometic Head Gasket
OEM Oil Pump
OEM Bottom End Gasket
Eagle Rods
Disassemble Motor
Remove/Install Motor
Removal/Installation of Turbo Parts

For Slow Motion in Columbus to do that for me cost me, $3,827. Still waiting for TPR to get back to me though to see if they can beat that price.

That doesn't involve me upgrading turbo parts, electronics, or any kind of maintenance.</TD></TR></TABLE>

EXCELLENT breakdown.

boostedh22lude1

i didnt say i wasnt going to get a pump if it needs one, im going to measure the clearance of the pump and if it needs it i will replace it, and i understand it is speed density im only going to use the base map for a short time untill i get the s300 im getting the ecu with the chipped base map for the price of the ecu itself thats why im going to use it till then, thanks for all the advice and i have build motors before but this is my first h22 and im just needing info on the parts i listed thanks

Joseph Davis

It seems these concepts still aren't clicking in your head, here let me try one last time:

You have a 100K+ mile powdered metal casting oil pump gear made out of a speshul alloy I like to call FAILURE, comprised of equal parts old tin cans and compressed mule sh<u></u>it. All of which is beside the point: a fresh engine should always get a fresh oil pump.

Meh, all the harsh criticism aside, if you see this project through to the end you'll have learned a lot. Good luck with it.

streetracer6rpt

http://www.maconracers.org/for...=7584

The Show Stopper

Give me a call so i can discuss this build further. i have all the breakdown of your list, i just need to finalize a few things with you first.

Thanks,
Rob@TPR
513.942.7020

Mikey3000

how much hp did these cars have that broke oil pumps? and how high were they revving?

Joseph Davis

10 psi on a .60 trim and stock revlimit, never dyno'd. Guy tossed another oil pump in and drove it for a year before I tuned it.

The other 8 psi on a 60-1, cams, and 8500 rpm. It died on the dyno when turning up the boost/tuning, 325 whp.

Mikey3000

thats strange. there must be some underlying issues with those cars. i didn't buy a new oil pump when i built my motor, i had the original one modified by Endyn. i don't know how many miles were on the motor and its an H22A so its at least 12 years old, lol. i rev to ~9500rpm and make 680 hp. but you're makin me nervous about it now.

Joseph Davis

Not strange. Design flaw. Y8 are good for it, too.

Every H22 turbo car that's been around for a couple years has accrued more oil pump failure than the rest of the 300-720 whp non-H series Hondas in western NC. There are five times as many 500+ B-series I have tuned than turbo H-series of any power level I have seen/heard of, it becomes apparent. They do a lot better NA, I imagine its due to the reduced amplitude of the harmonics involved.

I wouldn't be too worried about it. You know where your car's oil pressure normally is when cold and when hot across the rpm band. When she starts reading 5 psi lower especially at idle you need to park it and replace the pump. Check the VTEC screen for bearing debris at the same time, if there is none you caught it before the pump consumed itself and you're golden. All turbo cars at your's power level like their maintainence, and if she so much as hiccoughs I know you pay attention.