Just curious what everone thinks about these Rods going inside a high HP Drag car... Are they targeted more towards the All Motor People or for FI people as well. Can I get a few opinions...

I think they weigh around 330gms and have the stronger 3/8 rod bolts.

Not to sure what type of Titanium is used...

Thanks for the Input,
Corey

 

Titanium is a good material to use if you want strength equal to steel with half the mass. But besides that titanium is no better. Titanium is actually not as tough as steel, meaning it is more likely to fail catastrophically than steel is.

Exotic rod materials like aluminum and titanium is pretty much the domain of single-duty drag cars.

 

Do you think there is gain to be made on having a lighter Rod with a FI car? Is the tradeoff worth it going from a Steel Rod to a Titanium?

Thanks,
Corey

 

Pauter states that by using their Ti rods in a six cylinder engine, the rotating mass due to the rods is reduced to that of only four stock steel rods.

 

I've always felt that the light weight rods for a turbo engine were really not necessary. A proper sized turbo is the biggest benefit.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by earl &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I've always felt that the light weight rods for a turbo engine were really not necessary. A proper sized turbo is the biggest benefit.</TD></TR></TABLE>

C'mon Earl, a motor is a motor. Light rods are a benefit in any application. You've just gotten used to turning up the boost when you want more power! lol Seriously, in a high rpm application you really should pay attention to reciprocating weight!

 

Personally, if I had the cast, I would go with a set of lightweight, polished steel rods. The polishing is expensive but it greatly increases the fracture resistance of the rod, while reducing mass. You would also be better off with as long of a rod as you can find pistons for. Longer rods = smaller maximum piston speed = less inertia.

 

How much mass can you actually remove from polishing? I can't imagine it would be significant. As far as the long rod goes, there's a limit to anything. I'm sure you'd find that a drag race motor with a 2:1 rod ratio wouldn't be optimal...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by beepy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Titanium is a good material to use if you want strength equal to steel with half the mass. But besides that titanium is no better. Titanium is actually not as tough as steel, meaning it is more likely to fail catastrophically than steel is.

Exotic rod materials like aluminum and titanium is pretty much the domain of single-duty drag cars.</TD></TR></TABLE>

FI or NA Does not matter.

Titanium is stronger than chrome moly steel and also half the wieght.
ti-6al-4v =Titanium Aluminum Vandanium.


Modified by MidShipCivic at 8:13 PM 1/22/2005

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

C'mon Earl, a motor is a motor. Light rods are a benefit in any application. You've just gotten used to turning up the boost when you want more power! lol Seriously, in a high rpm application you really should pay attention to reciprocating weight!</TD></TR></TABLE>no, I understand what you are saying is correct. If these turbo cars all ran like prostocks and every gram was critical, I would acknowledge the weight differential. But what happens then is that every guy making 400-500whp on the street feels that he must have titanium rods. Then they put on a turbo with the wrong size exhaust and spool slow anyway. I agree 100% with what you are saying for an all out drag motor.

 

Just making sure you hadn't lost it Earl! I've seen your mind running around the track on it's own a few times, but I guess it always makes it back home! lol

 

I've been building too many street motors lately

 

I have ask a top fuel team why didn't they use titanium rods and they said : its not cost effective to us. (they were using aluminium)

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MidShipCivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have ask a top fuel team why didn't they use titanium rods and they said : its not cost effective to us. (they were using aluminium)</TD></TR></TABLE>

may I ask who you asked?

As far as Ti rods and rotating mass in prostocks, which rev nearly has high as your typical 4 cyl drag car, I would have to say its benefical if you can afford it ...but i dont know much..its just my opinion

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MidShipCivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have ask a top fuel team why didn't they use titanium rods and they said : its not cost effective to us. (they were using aluminium)</TD></TR></TABLE>They change rods every few runs and aluminum rods are much cheaper for them. Also aluminum absorbs detonation slightly better and I imagine the weight factor is pretty close to titanium anyway.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by earl &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">They change rods every few runs and aluminum rods are much cheaper for them. Also aluminum absorbs detonation slightly better and I imagine the weight factor is pretty close to titanium anyway.</TD></TR></TABLE>

im going to have to work that into my budget for this year

 

Well this is definitely for a Trailered DRAG car. So I don't want anyone to get the wrong idea here. I hope to make it to most of the East coast NDRA Events and compete in the Pro 4 cylinder. Although I don't think I will be competitive in the class, I still want to come out and have fun!

Has anyone got a chance to check out these Rods? They seem to be a pretty decent price for being a Ti Rod. Most others that I have seen range from 2000 to 4000 in price range? How does Omni offer these at such a low price?

Thanks again for the Input,
Corey


Modified by 95c1v1cs1 at 8:20 AM 1/23/2005

 

since you have created this thread Ive been doing some reading on Ti rods. Learned a couple things i didnt know about Ti rods and I will share what I have found and i think is useful...

check out this .pdf file for some interesting facts about Ti Rods...

http://www.grapeaperacing.com/...s.pdf

 

I dont believe there is a cruial weight difference between aluminum and titanium rods. However you can obivously get more runs out of a Ti rod because it doesnt stretch like aluminum and it has the strength you want from a steel rod. I can understand perfectly why top fuel cars dont use them, but in pro stock i could see them as an important factor. Since the motors are spinning at 9500+ rpms, the titanium rods have less surface area than aluminum rods, which is an advantage in several different ways.

I'd like to hear your input earl

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BoostingSnail &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">since you have created this thread Ive been doing some reading on Ti rods. Learned a couple things i didnt know about Ti rods and I will share what I have found and i think is useful...

check out this .pdf file for some interesting facts about Ti Rods...

http://www.grapeaperacing.com/...s.pdf</TD></TR></TABLE>

Good Article!

 

The NSX has Ti Rods, and I guess the new Z06 C6 vette does too.

The one thing I remember being concerned about with Titanium was the interaction with other metals. It was said that Ti could be harmful when in constant friction with other parts.

-meh...I think it can work out fine though. Lube it up, maybe get the assembly coated, and it might work fine.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Good Article! </TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah i thought it was interesting...sometimes i question sources of information from the internet..Im not too sure that the grape ape racing site is accurate because Ive never heard of them. So I'd like to know how, where, and in what engine they experienced the "welding" of Ti in engines since they claim all the information is from them...Id like to see pictures and know a little more about it...still researching

 

Titanium is also used as a wrist pin.
Friction fault stuff doesn't apply to all aftermarket Ti rods, if your that worried cryo it and coat it.

4032 pistons, ti rods, ti wrist pins, EN30B steel crank thats that kind of stuff that get my excited With that you can knife edge you crank

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BoostingSnail &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I dont believe there is a cruial weight difference between aluminum and titanium rods. However you can obivously get more runs out of a Ti rod because it doesnt stretch like aluminum and it has the strength you want from a steel rod. I can understand perfectly why top fuel cars dont use them, but in pro stock i could see them as an important factor. Since the motors are spinning at 9500+ rpms, the titanium rods have less surface area than aluminum rods, which is an advantage in several different ways.

I'd like to hear your input earl </TD></TR></TABLE>I agree with everything you say. However, titanium could be old school technology in a prostock engine. Those motors are super secret.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by earl &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">They change rods every few runs and aluminum rods are much cheaper for them. Also aluminum absorbs detonation slightly better and I imagine the weight factor is pretty close to titanium anyway.</TD></TR></TABLE>

When I hear aluminum rods, I'm always reminded of the last person I know who used them...



Anyone else whos been here long enough, knows who I'm talking about.