O-Ring on Darton MID Sleeves
#1
O-Ring on Darton MID Sleeves
Hi Guys,
I was just wondering why people O-ring their blocks?Why is that necessary?
I was told that Darton sleeves could not be made with o-rings because they were sinking sleeves...is it true or ??Can dartons be o-ringed??
Please help
I was just wondering why people O-ring their blocks?Why is that necessary?
I was told that Darton sleeves could not be made with o-rings because they were sinking sleeves...is it true or ??Can dartons be o-ringed??
Please help
#2
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Re: O-Ring on Darton MID Sleeves
People Oring sleeves to provide additional head gasket sealing. When a copper ring is used the wire usually stands .010~.015" proud above the deck. This crushes when the head is torqued down adding additional squish to the head gasket around the cylinders.
I cant speak specifically about Darton sleeves but the reasoning that they sink is laughable. If the sleeve sinks then its trash.
I cant speak specifically about Darton sleeves but the reasoning that they sink is laughable. If the sleeve sinks then its trash.
#3
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Re: O-Ring on Darton MID Sleeves
darton sleeves can be o-ringed.
the only reason any sleeve sinks after install is because it was installed incorrectly. Either the block wasn't machined correctly or someone fucked up the sleeve install.
I've used darton sleeves exclusively on many builds with no issues
the only reason any sleeve sinks after install is because it was installed incorrectly. Either the block wasn't machined correctly or someone fucked up the sleeve install.
I've used darton sleeves exclusively on many builds with no issues
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Re: O-Ring on Darton MID Sleeves
Wantboost
On the off chance would you know if there is a difference in the machining process between Darton and LA sleeves, I'm referring to the seating area at the base of the sleeves.
On the off chance would you know if there is a difference in the machining process between Darton and LA sleeves, I'm referring to the seating area at the base of the sleeves.
#6
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Re: O-Ring on Darton MID Sleeves
Also for the OP. Darton sleeves can be SS or copper O-ringed. I chose to use SS and have had zero head gasket issues and make over 1000whp.
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Re: O-Ring on Darton MID Sleeves
Yes darton sleeves use triple o rings at the base to seal it in the block and are simply dropped into place, making sleeve replacement simple. most other sleeves are epoxied at the base with no o rings and pressed into place. these sleeves are notorious for sinking (the pressed in epoxy kind) and replacing a damaged sleeve is a total bitch.
I might consider the SS o ring as well. the fact that it doesn't crush as much means at least to me better cylinder seal
I might consider the SS o ring as well. the fact that it doesn't crush as much means at least to me better cylinder seal
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#8
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Re: O-Ring on Darton MID Sleeves
Yes darton sleeves use triple o rings at the base to seal it in the block and are simply dropped into place, making sleeve replacement simple. most other sleeves are epoxied at the base with no o rings and pressed into place. these sleeves are notorious for sinking (the pressed in epoxy kind) and replacing a damaged sleeve is a total bitch.
I might consider the SS o ring as well. the fact that it doesn't crush as much means at least to me better cylinder seal
I might consider the SS o ring as well. the fact that it doesn't crush as much means at least to me better cylinder seal
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Re: O-Ring on Darton MID Sleeves
It's not an o ring. rubber would never survive those temps
It's a circle of copper or stainless steel wire, typically .030" thickness. again there isn't a diameter really, you take a coil of wire, cut it to length then place it in the groove making sure the ends meet without a gap.
groove placement in the sleeve depends on bore size.
It's a circle of copper or stainless steel wire, typically .030" thickness. again there isn't a diameter really, you take a coil of wire, cut it to length then place it in the groove making sure the ends meet without a gap.
groove placement in the sleeve depends on bore size.
#11
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Re: O-Ring on Darton MID Sleeves
#12
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Re: O-Ring on Darton MID Sleeves
I can see it but I'm good like that :D
I'm assuming that the groove for a copper ring and ss ring would be the same basic size? I really like the idea of ss over copper with the dart tall deck block I'm going to build.
I'm assuming that the groove for a copper ring and ss ring would be the same basic size? I really like the idea of ss over copper with the dart tall deck block I'm going to build.
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Re: O-Ring on Darton MID Sleeves
I also like how you chamfered the edges of the holes for the head studs, but those look like holes for 1/2" studs to me
also debating on those as well
also debating on those as well
#14
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Re: O-Ring on Darton MID Sleeves
Just good ol' GE head studs. No need for 1/2". That was a good idea back in 1998.
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Re: O-Ring on Darton MID Sleeves
it must be the angle of the pic and the chamfer that makes the holes look bigger. that is one very clean block.
I'm assuming I can o-ring my dart block when I get it, there's very little sleeve material due to them being dry liners. I'm still torn on headstuds... the only company I know of making H11 studs still for hondas is InlinePro. ARP will custom make a set of their 2000 material studs. I'm trying to avoid going bigger diameter, as i really don't want to start cutting up a brand new block lol.
I don't know whether to go H11 or ARP2000. (84.5 or 85mm bore, 98mm stroke, minimum 6.000" BME aluminum rods) I'll shoot you a pm here in a bit. So many ideas and questions in my head lol
I'm assuming I can o-ring my dart block when I get it, there's very little sleeve material due to them being dry liners. I'm still torn on headstuds... the only company I know of making H11 studs still for hondas is InlinePro. ARP will custom make a set of their 2000 material studs. I'm trying to avoid going bigger diameter, as i really don't want to start cutting up a brand new block lol.
I don't know whether to go H11 or ARP2000. (84.5 or 85mm bore, 98mm stroke, minimum 6.000" BME aluminum rods) I'll shoot you a pm here in a bit. So many ideas and questions in my head lol
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Re: O-Ring on Darton MID Sleeves
hey sorry to bump a old thread but was following up on the stainless steel o-rings.. i have read that when using the SS o-rings you have to machine the head also? is this true? i just purchased a b18c AEBS blocks w/SS 0-rings (.12 thickness) and trying to do all the research i can before i start my official build.. Also I've see many members suggest using an oem head gasket w/copper 0-rings, what about the stainless? same? any help would be greatly appreciated..
#17
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Re: O-Ring on Darton MID Sleeves
sorrys get you no where here, especially bumping an old thread.
in my opinion, o rings aren't needed. just wasted money in my opinon.
in my opinion, o rings aren't needed. just wasted money in my opinon.
#18
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Re: O-Ring on Darton MID Sleeves
sorrys get you no where here, especially bumping an old thread.
in my opinion, o rings aren't needed. just wasted money in my opinon.
in my opinion, o rings aren't needed. just wasted money in my opinon.
#19
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Re: O-Ring on Darton MID Sleeves
hey sorry to bump a old thread but was following up on the stainless steel o-rings.. i have read that when using the SS o-rings you have to machine the head also? is this true? i just purchased a b18c AEBS blocks w/SS 0-rings (.12 thickness) and trying to do all the research i can before i start my official build.. Also I've see many members suggest using an oem head gasket w/copper 0-rings, what about the stainless? same? any help would be greatly appreciated..
#20
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Re: O-Ring on Darton MID Sleeves
Late reply, but they butt together below of the hole that is in the "V" of where the cylinders meet in the first picture. Am I right? If I am, where is my stale cookie?
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Re: O-Ring on Darton MID Sleeves
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Re: O-Ring on Darton MID Sleeves
Never hurts to be polite. I'm here to learn and ask questions. Rather starting a new thread on something that can "sometimes" looked up. Thanks for your opinion but as stated current block already has the o-ringed installed.
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Re: O-Ring on Darton MID Sleeves
with the typical SS wire thickness for the o-ring you shouldn't have to machine a receiver groove in the head.
O rings work for high boost/compression/bore builds as it ensures a positive seal around each cylinder in addition to actually positively retaining the HG. anyone who has done a HG on a honda before knows how the gasket likes to wiggle around. There are more reasons but those are the most relevant IMO
If I were sleeving a block with the hopes of high anything I would o-ring it
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Re: O-Ring on Darton MID Sleeves
yea that's where they meet but I said it first lol
with the typical SS wire thickness for the o-ring you shouldn't have to machine a receiver groove in the head.
O rings work for high boost/compression/bore builds as it ensures a positive seal around each cylinder in addition to actually positively retaining the HG. anyone who has done a HG on a honda before knows how the gasket likes to wiggle around. There are more reasons but those are the most relevant IMO
If I were sleeving a block with the hopes of high anything I would o-ring it
with the typical SS wire thickness for the o-ring you shouldn't have to machine a receiver groove in the head.
O rings work for high boost/compression/bore builds as it ensures a positive seal around each cylinder in addition to actually positively retaining the HG. anyone who has done a HG on a honda before knows how the gasket likes to wiggle around. There are more reasons but those are the most relevant IMO
If I were sleeving a block with the hopes of high anything I would o-ring it