New Wastegate Technology, Different Concepts
10-24-2006, 10:52 AM
#28
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Re: (.nate)
seems to be well thought out and engineered. Have you done any hardcore datalogging on any vehicles yet? I would like to see some feedback on cars that have been tested...boost levels, horsepower etc...
Looks like tial and turbosmart mite have to bump up their technology! Good for competition!
Also what octanes of gas can they be used with???
Looks like tial and turbosmart mite have to bump up their technology! Good for competition!
Also what octanes of gas can they be used with???
10-24-2006, 09:31 PM
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Re: (iBrandon)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by iBrandon »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Also what octanes of gas can they be used with???</TD></TR></TABLE>
Unlike Tial, there is no metal to metal contact in the gate for moving parts. Tial has Nitronic 60 stainless rubbing against another grade of stainless steel. Leaded gas apparently makes them stick together. The Synchronic design uses the actuator for valve guiding, not the casting. There is a bushing installed that is used more to keep flame out of the actuator, and the melting point of that is higher than stainless. So no special coatings required on the valve stem at all.
I have some preliminary data, but no time to put it out there for another couple of weeks.
Modified by Synapse at 6:38 AM 10/26/2006
Unlike Tial, there is no metal to metal contact in the gate for moving parts. Tial has Nitronic 60 stainless rubbing against another grade of stainless steel. Leaded gas apparently makes them stick together. The Synchronic design uses the actuator for valve guiding, not the casting. There is a bushing installed that is used more to keep flame out of the actuator, and the melting point of that is higher than stainless. So no special coatings required on the valve stem at all.
I have some preliminary data, but no time to put it out there for another couple of weeks.
Modified by Synapse at 6:38 AM 10/26/2006
10-25-2006, 07:25 AM
#32
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Re: (MidShipCivic)
Nice looking product! Looks like you did your research!!
Here are some of the adjustable preload wg's from the land of the Rising Sun.
Apexi R/C
Old Skool with 40mm valve
Old Skool Trust Racing wg
Greddy racing wg (Trust)
Old Skool Blitz Racing wg buillt by SGMA.
Here are some of the adjustable preload wg's from the land of the Rising Sun.
Apexi R/C
Old Skool with 40mm valve
Old Skool Trust Racing wg
Greddy racing wg (Trust)
Old Skool Blitz Racing wg buillt by SGMA.
10-25-2006, 09:49 AM
#33
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Wow, this is very interesting! I didn't realize that there was so much technology in a wastegate. Put me on the list for one of these as well, I'd like to do some testing on a couple of our turbo cars that we are having wastegate issues with.
10-25-2006, 03:28 PM
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Re: (Dee)
Dee, Pre-load adjustment is nothing new, it has been around for a long time. But take those gates apart, and you'll see the following:
*if you crank down on the spring adjustment to maximum, you start to limit valve travel. This produces boost creep
*The same primary spring that is used for rate is the same spring used for adjusting preload
In the Synchronic WG, cranking down to the maximum adjustment for pre-load will not limit overall valve travel. Most of the Diaphragm WGs out there don't have a travel stop for the pre-load adjustment. In the Synchronic WG, there is also a dedicated spring for pre-load adjustment, and another spring just for actuation rate. Their functions are additive, however, at higher temps you will want to have multiple springs and not just one.
*if you crank down on the spring adjustment to maximum, you start to limit valve travel. This produces boost creep
*The same primary spring that is used for rate is the same spring used for adjusting preload
In the Synchronic WG, cranking down to the maximum adjustment for pre-load will not limit overall valve travel. Most of the Diaphragm WGs out there don't have a travel stop for the pre-load adjustment. In the Synchronic WG, there is also a dedicated spring for pre-load adjustment, and another spring just for actuation rate. Their functions are additive, however, at higher temps you will want to have multiple springs and not just one.
10-25-2006, 09:37 PM
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Re: (Synapse)
After thinking more of this out... I've got another question or view on this.
With the way you've described the boost adjustment proceedure on pg 1, it seems that you could eliminate most of the markets EBC's with something like a Tein in-car shock valve adjustment control. No? less vacuum lines to hassle with as with some models.
With the way you've described the boost adjustment proceedure on pg 1, it seems that you could eliminate most of the markets EBC's with something like a Tein in-car shock valve adjustment control. No? less vacuum lines to hassle with as with some models.
10-25-2006, 09:44 PM
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Re: (silly sohc)
A simple 3-way valve with an on/off switch would allow you easy two setting boost control with a high and low setting.
A 4 way valve with a setting controller would allow you high/medium/low.
All of this is without pulsewidth modulation, or bleeding, which is where you tend to get instability and spiking.
Now imagine your AEM EMS/Chrome/Uberdata controlling this on/off switch. And then close loop it with say, knock, gear, afr, etc.
A 4 way valve with a setting controller would allow you high/medium/low.
All of this is without pulsewidth modulation, or bleeding, which is where you tend to get instability and spiking.
Now imagine your AEM EMS/Chrome/Uberdata controlling this on/off switch. And then close loop it with say, knock, gear, afr, etc.
10-26-2006, 07:42 AM
#37
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Re: (Synapse)
how much higher would high boost be than the lowest boost?
on most externally gated stetups i never have a problem with spiking using aem's boost control
on most externally gated stetups i never have a problem with spiking using aem's boost control
10-26-2006, 10:54 AM
#38
something different
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Re: (JDogg)
man, i hope it will be available in the next 3 months! i want one. gotta give my buddys tial back, and dont wanna replace it with my old deltagate(which has an adjustable preload setup also)
11-03-2006, 10:06 PM
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Re: (redzcstandardhatch)
Thank you for those that came by the booth.
And thank you to SEMA for awarding us the SEMA Show 2006 Best New Product: Performance and Racing
http://sema.carcrazycentral.com/Article/48
And thank you to SEMA for awarding us the SEMA Show 2006 Best New Product: Performance and Racing
http://sema.carcrazycentral.com/Article/48
11-04-2006, 04:45 AM
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Re: New Wastegate Technology, Different Concepts (Synapse)
i like the idea it doesnt leave you stuck with just one wastegate for a set ammount of power, different valves and different springs ot adjust the rates of boost and power, good concept
11-06-2006, 01:57 PM
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Re: New Wastegate Technology, Different Concepts (b18sihatch)
It is just like getting 2 wastegates in one by being able to control the max flow. It always gives you the option to go bigger.
Now, if you go with the 50 mm gate, I think it is safe to say that you'll have the WG for the long haul. You can always go smaller, but never bigger than the frame WG that you have.
Now, if you go with the 50 mm gate, I think it is safe to say that you'll have the WG for the long haul. You can always go smaller, but never bigger than the frame WG that you have.
11-06-2006, 02:13 PM
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Re: New Wastegate Technology, Different Concepts (eastcoast_ej)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by eastcoast_ej »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Now how do i get one?</TD></TR></TABLE>
I've been trying to ask him for the longest...
Now how do i get one?</TD></TR></TABLE>
I've been trying to ask him for the longest...
11-06-2006, 02:20 PM
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Re: (Synapse)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Synapse »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thank you for those that came by the booth.
And thank you to SEMA for awarding us the SEMA Show 2006 Best New Product: Performance and Racing
http://sema.carcrazycentral.com/Article/48 </TD></TR></TABLE>
Congrats
And thank you to SEMA for awarding us the SEMA Show 2006 Best New Product: Performance and Racing
http://sema.carcrazycentral.com/Article/48 </TD></TR></TABLE>
Congrats
11-06-2006, 02:39 PM
#46
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Re: New Wastegate Technology, Different Concepts (eastcoast_ej)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by eastcoast_ej »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Now how do i get one?</TD></TR></TABLE>
combo deal on wg and bov?
Now how do i get one?</TD></TR></TABLE>
combo deal on wg and bov?
11-06-2006, 08:15 PM
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Re: (dunkd)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dunkd »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">SSautochrome is selling these on ebay now</TD></TR></TABLE>
Hell no. If thats a fact there in for a big lawsuit.
Hell no. If thats a fact there in for a big lawsuit.