Hi I'm Jesse, have only built v8s till now. My goal is to build something in the 450 hp range, while still being a daily driver. I'm leaning towards an Ls/v-tech. My question is about the B20 block. I was told the cylinders were weak. Will sleeving correct that? Also for my power goal willbthe stock axles and trans hold up? I have read both ways on both. Just wondering if someone could help. Thanks for the help in advance.

 

yes better way is sleeving the b20,axles and trans must hold up on daily car )

 

Ok thank you I appreciate the help..

 

the b20 cylinders are a 1 piece iron insert compared to other b series which have individual inserts per cylinder. the 1 piece design makes them less versatile and prone to cracking from torsional forces (rpm) and detonation as well.

sleeving will completely eliminate that and is highly recommended as far as im concerned.

the stock gears will hold up, but the differential may become compromised. there are a lot of people running stock gear sets with aftermarket limited slip differentials making a lot more than 450whp.

the axles should be ok, make sure to preload at the track and avoid wheel hop at all costs. slicks over radials if possible. they may not last forever but are by far the easiest component of the drivetrain to change, half hour or less in most instances. if you have never been in or had a 450whp civic you will be suprised i think at how fast they really are. certainly not the tq of a v8 but they just keep pulling and pulling the faster you go the faster it goes. they im sure will back half like 10+ more mph than a v8 running the same et.

 

You won't make that power on stock internals. You need forged rods and pistons. As stated above the b20 Steve design makes them weak over smaller bore blocks. Some people never have an issue with cracking sleeves while others have it happen left and right. It seems to be a crapshoot with the stock sleeves.

Unless there's just some pressing reason for wanting a 2 liter motor or you don't want to pay the 1500 or so dollars for sleeves then just get a 1.8l b18b/a block. Same deck height, rod length, and stroke. Just an 81mm bore. You'll make just as much power but only slightly less torque, nothing to justify the added expense of making a b20 reliable. Also you'll still need forged internals to make your power but the sleeve design is much stronger and you won't have an issue at 450 with stock sleeves.

What fuel do you plan on using? You won't make it to 450 on 93; especially not 91. You might be able to break 400, maybe 425. Methanol injection should supplement the 93 enough to make 450 but that depends on the water to alcohol ratio, how much you inject, and how aggressive the tune is. If you have accessto e85 you won't have any issues making 450.

And if you decide on forged internals don't go low compression. With advances in enginemanagement, fuels, and engine materials there's no reason. Everybody went lpw compression back in the day because there weren't any effective tuning methods, fuels weren't as advanced, cam technology wasn't as advanced, cylinder heads didn't flow the kind of air they do now, people were afraid, and so on.

With your power goal there's no reason to go below 10:1. If you're staying on 93 and methanol injection youcan go anywhere between 10:1 and 11:1. On e85 the sky is the limit. People run 12.5:1 on 600-700hp+ turbo 1.8-2.0 vtec motors. One user Muckman runs 13.5:1 on an e85, methanol injected 2 liter 89mm stroke gsr and made over 500hp at around 8-10psi IIRC with a gt3076r.. 5.5psi was around 350-375.

Higher compression means a more efficient combustion cycle, you'll see better fuel economy, increased torque levels due to higher cylinder pressures, better throttle response, and improved drivability abd performance out of boost.

If you've never tuned a turbo motor, especially a turbo Honda motor, or tuned vtec before I strongly suggest letting a professional tuner do the initial tune. Theyare entirely different animals from v8s . For example when I tune our 630-650hp ls7 it's an incredibly different procedure from a small displacementhigh rpm turbo 4 cylinder . While you're changing the same things they both require different procedures in various tuning areas.

Vtec crossover points can make or break a power curve and the motors are very very sensitiveto ignition advance, especially on stock sleeves .

 

I really app all the great advice. And as much as I would like to reach the 450 hp. I also dont want to make my first project complex fuel wise. I am still researching and I do like the idea of the b18 instead of the b20. Im learning on the fly. I do greatly app all the help. I definately will have it tuned. Any orher tips would be greatly appreciated thanks..

 

wantboost has great advice and tremendous experience, but i dont want his fuel comments to scare you. if your motor is very efficient to begin with, and has as well set up turbo kit you can certainly make 450 on 93 octane. ive seen people even make 500 on 93 before but that i really dont recommend. most people seem to switch over from 93 octane to some other fuel between 425 and 450whp. i stopped tuning on 93 at 438whp. you could always make your 450 while dyno tuning and then turn it back down 1-2 psi maybe something like 420whp. then you can leave your boost cut at the psi where you made your 450 and stopped tuning so you never overboost it.

the fuel setup itself will be pretty basic. walbro 255 lph in tank pump, your choice of injector maybe 880-1000cc so your not running it at real high duty cycle. you can use the stock lines, stock fuel rail and stock fuel pressure. much more than that and its upgrade time but for a pump gas setup its fine.

 

Thanks Black I do app all the great advice. I def have a lot of learning to do. Tuners are a whole different beast, and some may be trial and error. But thats the way it goes sometimes. Thank you again for all of the tips!