Let me know I should be able to do some good Vs tests

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .dave &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

In for beta testing.

I looked at running the Bosch sensor for a while too, but the response time of 5 seconds kind of turned me off. Then again, I had no idea what the stock Honda sensor's was but I figured it was at least this as well. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Well it gets complicated. The "time constant" of a thermistor is the time it takes for the sensor to register 63% of the temperature change, in still air. They are also rated in how long it takes to register 63% change when submerged in oil.

For example, a typical "fast response" thermistor might have a time constant of 15 seconds in still air and 2 seconds in oil. For our application (moving air) the time constant will lie somewhere between the two time constant values.

But Bosch doesn't list that info - they list some worthless spec. "Response time 90%: &lt; 5s". What does that even mean?? Response time under what conditions? And nothing is ever rated at 90%. For exponential time relationships, 63% is always used, for any field of physics/electronics/etc. Seems like Bosch just made that up. It doesn't matter though, you can tell by how big the thermistor is that it won't have a really quick response time.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Legion &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well it gets complicated. The "time constant" of a thermistor is the time it takes for the sensor to register 63% of the temperature change, in still air. They are also rated in how long it takes to register 63% change when submerged in oil.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm finishing up my master's in mechanical engineering with a concentration on dynamics and controls, so I've dealt with my fair share of time constants.

 

i'm studying for a feedback control test right now

 

so..I don't mean to thread jack here, but it's sort of on the subject..how exactly would this new sensor affect an existing tune, and what you have to do to accomodate it?
Is it really as simple as your tune is always compromised (more conservative) with the oem sensor? How do you set it up to take advantage of the faster responding sensor?
I suppose I should probably search about this before posting, but I doubt I'll be able to find any worthwhile info anyway.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SOHC_MShue &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i'm studying for a feedback control test right now </TD></TR></TABLE>

Continuous systems?

 

Here is what the OEM sensor is encased in:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P...alate

A thermal insulator!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .dave &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Continuous systems? </TD></TR></TABLE>
yea continuous.

 

Do OBD1 and OBD2 IAT sensors have different style plugs?

 

yes

 

*EDIT*

I found the manufacturer's data sheet for the OEM Honda IAT sensor. The thermal time constant is listed as 15 seconds in a "moving air stream".

 

doesnt one company use an open element IAT with a plastic "cage" around it so it open air without an insulator but has protection from **** hitting it? would that be practical?

 

Yeah, there are a few sensors like that. I don't like them that much. Harder/more expensive to make with no benefit. Plus the plastic can melt. I'd rather stick with the open element.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Legion &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yeah, there are a few sensors like that. I don't like them that much. Harder/more expensive to make with no benefit. Plus the plastic can melt. I'd rather stick with the open element.</TD></TR></TABLE>

id say that could benefit you well. if they are as easy to break as you say theres going to be a number of repeat customers for sensors they broke. youre a good business man

 

The actual sensing element of the thermistor is incredibly small. It's coated in a bead of glass to protect it. So you don't have to be that careful with it; just treat it like what it is - a piece of glass. If you drop it on the tip, it's toast.

I really want to shoot for maximum response time. If I made any compromise, I'd basically be selling something that already exists in the market.

 

Sounds like a fantastic product! I was linked here by you from my thread:
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=2246341

Will this IAT sensor work for those of us who are using cheap datalogging software that only allows for a 0-5V input (like Zeitronix ZT2, or Innovate software, etc)? Will you publish a voltage vs. temperature chart if we need to manually enter this data into our software?

 

voted and think it is a great idea.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boostd92 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Will this IAT sensor work for those of us who are using cheap datalogging software that only allows for a 0-5V input (like Zeitronix ZT2, or Innovate software, etc)? </TD></TR></TABLE>

I can just build a little microcontroller box if that's what people want. I could probably make/sell it for $50. It would convert the Honda IAT signal into a linear 0-5v signal.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Will you publish a voltage vs. temperature chart if we need to manually enter this data into our software?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Lol, I keep telling you, it doesn't work that way! The sensors are resistance based, not voltage based. I know it's hard to understand, but there isn't any voltage/temperature relationship. The sensors I'm building still won't work with your datalogging software because they still aren't linear. You would still need the microcontroller box to "decode" the IAT signal. There is no temperature sensor in the world that will be directly compatible with your software.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Legion &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I can just build a little microcontroller box if that's what people want. I could probably make/sell it for $50. It would convert the Honda IAT signal into a linear 0-5v signal.

.</TD></TR></TABLE>

this is starting to get more intereting.
I will love to see something, like the microcontroller box, basically this will translate the temperature readout of the IAT, and converts it into voltage, then in return it will be dispplayed in temperature in the logging software.

if all this is waste of time, atleast I can still datalog intake temps in the S manager logging software.

 

Important Updates.

Delphi makes the Honda IAT sensors. They do not sell the male-end plugs individually. That plug configuration is only available on the IAT itself. Even worse, the plug design is patented and I cannot reproduce it.

Therefore, I can make the sensors 2 different ways:

1. Using my own sealed/automotive harness. You'd have to cut off the Honda plug and attach the supplied plug. Cheapest option for you ($60, conservatively).

2. Using genuine Honda sensors that I've cut apart and modified. The internal sensor will be discarded and I will simply re-use the plug. The cost will, of course, be passed on to you. The cheapest I can source the sensors is $12 for OBD1 and $18 for OBD2. That would make the final sensor price $72 - $78.


As of now, I'm only going to be offering the threaded design. I know a lot of you JRSC guys want an OBD1 style bolt-on design, but I would have to create an entirely new body from scratch to avoid the heat-soak issue. That means spending thousands of dollars on injection molding. I'm not sure that there's enough customer base for these sensors to justify splurging on such a large up-front cost. And I'm sure none of you want to eat that cost either.

Furthermore, having once owned a JRSC myself, I remember that I had a free 1/8" NPT port on the manifold where the boost pressure sensor was supposed to go. Why can't you use that?!

 

Got an idea on a time frame?

 

Not really. Probably a few months out. Progress is slow because I have to keep waiting for parts to come in the mail.

 

Need more input. Check out the display colors here:

http://www.newhavendisplay.com...s.jpg


What do you guys like best? I'm building a screen for the sensors that will display the IAT temps. It will have some nifty features, such as being able to display two channels at once (for people who mount a sensor before and after their intercooler) and will have a "hold" option to hold the highest IAT after a run.

Personally, I've always liked the look of the white text on a blue background. However, I'm not going to build some piece of **** display like the PLX wideband uses that gets completely sunwashed. In the picture I posted, the absolute best screens to fight sunwash are in the "FSTN" group. They can only support black text. What do you guys think? I'm leaning towards the basic black text/white background.

 

the black/white looks good.

 

I'd run one for sure.