Prozon

So I have been thinking about building a new motor for my car and I want your opinions. I'm just looking to make the most power I can, with the parts that I have laying around. (And of course buying some new ones.)

I guess I should start with my "build" sheet..

I will keep this up to date as it changes.
Block:
B18a1
Darton Sleeves 83mm
Arias Forged Pistons 10.2:1
Eagle Rods
ACL Main/Rod Bearings
Stock LS Crankshaft
ARP Head Studs
Golden Eagle Head Gasket
OEM Gaskets/Seals

Head:
B18a1
Brian Crower 404's
Dual Titanium Valve Springs
Ferrera oversized valves.
Port and Polish


What do you think about this?
(Please read the whole post before commenting.)

I plan to use an LS motor for the basis of this. I already have the B18a1 block and head laying around, so why not build it?

I'm a little hesitant about the 10.2 compression pistons, but I have them and if I can't sell them.. well they're going to have to go in a motor right? I've read about a lot of other setup's using 10.2:1 compression and it sounds to me like it's a good idea. The sleeving is also related to the pistons, they are 83mm so instead of boring out the stock block that much, I would prefer to be safe and go with some new sleeves. I think the Eagle rods should hold up to whatever power the motor makes.

Of course i'm going with ARP bolts all the way around and a cometic head gasket to top it off. The brian crower cams/valve springs are also just one of the parts that are going on because they are available. It would seem a port and polish is a must here as well.

I have not really given much thought to the turbo size or horsepower goals of the build. My thought is that with this compression I can run a larger turbo and still have it spool rather quickly. (Am I wrong thinking that?) With this compression am I forced to run a lower boost?

I am not sure what valves to put in this either, I have read a lot about Ferrea valves.. does anyone have some input there? I would also like your input on the intake manifold, throttle body and injectors.

What is my limiting factor in all this? Obviously the motor should be capable of withstanding quite a bit of power, but does anyone have a general idea of what power I could put out with the appropriate fuel pump/injectors/octane?

Sorry about the mess of a post here, just trying to get my opinions out there and looking for any helpful opinions one might have! Thanks.

tam4511

iTrader: (1)

eagle rods come with arp rod bolts, and get your crank polished and balanced.
everything else looks good...

Prozon

If I were to buy a brand new OEM crank, would I really need to worry about micropolishing/balancing?

AlexDphoto

You should just micropolish yours and balance it, it should still be less money than actually buying a new crank itself.

IMO I would run an OEM head gasket over the cometic, but thats strictly opinion. I ran cometic and ran into cooling issues. Switched to oem and not a problem since.

Running the higher compression pistons really isnt going to limit the amount of pressure you can run through a turbo so long as the tuner you have is one that is competent. Really dependant on the type of turbo you are going to choose however.

On my GSR right now Im running ferrea components and I havent a single issue revving 8500+.

hope the build works out for you, looks like its going to be fun especially since youre sleeving. The possibilities are endless man lol.

and for the love of god dont take any FI advice from Aussie on clubintegra. Apparently if you run all these forged components your car wont last at all being daily driven and its all overkill. He will also tell you that you can reuse your oem headstuds after you take them out

AlexDphoto

btw, an important question for you is what kind of driving is this car going to see the majority of the time? I would tailor your build around that.

Prozon

I think I will end up selling the motor and transmission that's in the car, and the crankshaft I have in my other block.. I wouldn't be happy using. A new crank is only a couple hundred bucks anyways. I think selling the motor and transmission (both rebuilt) with under 10k on them could offset some of the cost of the new motor and transmission.

As for the turbo, i'm really up for any suggestions. Like I said my thought was a larger turbo would do good, but really.. anyone's input on this would be appreciated. I will get it tuned at SpeedFactory here in Washington when the motor is done. They're pretty much the only shop in this state I would trust with my car and seem to be more then capable. I saw some of the cars they brought to the Honda-Tech meet recently. I've tried dealing with Fluid Motorsports before but they just straight up ignore my emails, if they can't even deal with an email I don't want them anywhere NEAR my car.

Do you have a suggestion on the valve sizes? The bigger the better?

As for the driving.. well I really hate to trailer the build around one kind of driving style because the car will see everything. It's going to see some drag strips, some tracks, and of course the streets.

Regarding the advise Alex, I posted it here for a reason. There's a lot more people running forced induction here than over on CI- and I see no reason to make a thread there for the two or three people who would reply on the topic with help. Besides, it looks like most of the users there are users here too lol.


Still looking for input!
Thanks for the replies!

AlexDphoto

Well, I would have the crank balanced just to make sure everything is alright, but it might not be necessary, ill let someone else chime in.

Same for the valve questions. I know a few local guys that were wanting to get rid of their oversized valves when going the boost route however, but thats all up in the air, again, ill let someone else chime in.

However, really, 90% of the time, what kind of driving does this car see? A street car would be fun with a peppy turbo that spools nice and quick, vs the lightswitch type turbo, where as soon as you hit a higher RPM, the tach just shoots up and youre instantly bouncing off the rev limiter. However I wouldnt expect gas mileage to be the best with a turbocharger where getting into boost is rather easy and quick. But then again, who builds a turbo honda with good gas mileage in mind

Prozon

Gas mileage is of no concern to me. Anything above 10mpg would make me happy. And anything above 1mpg i'm okay with.
So I guess the question is, how big is too big for the valves? If your friends are members here, or there, or anywhere.. tell them to get in touch with me lol.

To honestly answer your question though, it will probably see more street then anything.. but it will be at the track or the strip every chance I get. That's no reason not to go all out with the build though.

Prozon

And you mention an OEM headgasket, but going to 83mm with the sleeves and everything.. can I get an OEM gasket oversized like that? I've actually heard of quite a few bad stories about the cometic gasket, but I guess that can be said about any part. Somebody snaps a rod and suddenly eagle rods are the biggest piles of trash ever. I don't think that, but it was an example. If anyone has a suggestion on the head gasket i'm open to opinions.

civickiller

GE hg, it's a bored out oem hg
I would stay std size valves
don't need arp main bolts

AlexDphoto

Yessir go with GE.

As far as the head goes man, if it were up to me, I would just leave it with a nice port and polish with standard valve upgrades.

Prozon

Why not have the ARP main studs? I figure the more insurance the better.

Alex, is there a specific downside to the cams I should know about?

guy_from_nerk

Hey Kris I got your pm on Clubintegra...

I would go 10.2:1 on the pistons. If I had it to do over I would've went 10:1 instead of 9:1.

Stay away from cometic headgaskets, they are junk and known to leak.Go with Golden Eagle

ARP mains are nice but you have to have the block align honed, I have them in my motor. One thing I would look into is Golden Eagles main girdle, its 300ish dollars, but its extra piece of mind. I like the feeling of knowing everything inside the engine is nice and secure.

Just make sure you get the rotating assembly balanced and blue print the engine. Its a 100 or so extra dollars, but I like being able to know exactly what every spec on my motor is

Prozon

Is balancing really necessary? I think I will have the machine shop assemble it, just for the peace of mind. Having them install the sleeves already, so it wouldn't hurt.

AlexDphoto

balance it for sure!

tam4511

iTrader: (1)

i didn't balance mine, its not completely necessary, it takes a lot to make the oem crank unbalanced.

Prozon

I have the same thoughts as Tam with that.. why is balancing necessary.. what's there to throw it off balance?

Appreciate the comments guys, keep them coming!

AlexDphoto

I would do it just for the peace of mind, just a simply micropolish/balance. Rotating assembly balance is pretty important, might as well just do it while the cranks out and cover that base.

kyden

main studs are said to distort the bore when torqued.

guy_from_nerk

Balancing is absolutely neccesary. What is there to throw off the balance? How about the fact that your putting aftermarket pistons/rods in there that do not weigh the same as your stock components did? Spend the extra money and do it right the first time, or prepare to rebuild your motor after about 40k miles once your bearings take a **** on you.

I had mine balanced by Benson when I built my motor, it is balanced to 11k+ rpm's

http://www.laskeyracing.com/shop/cranks.htm

Good read:

"Engine balancing is a standard procedure utilized at Eddies Performance machine shop. In fact we feel engine balancing is one of the most important aspects of building your engine right because balancing rotating assemblies affects every aspect of your engine running right. Balancing goes hand-in-hand with performance engine building. Balancing reduces internal loads and vibrations that stress metal and may eventually lead to component failure.

From a technical point of view, every engine regardless of the application or its selling price can benefit from balancing. A smoother-running engine is also a more powerful engine. Less energy is wasted by the crank as it thrashes about in its bearings, which translates into a little more usable power at the flywheel. Reducing engine vibration also reduces stress on motor mounts and external accessories, and in big over-the-road trucks, the noise and vibration the driver has to endure mile after mile.

Though all engines are balanced from the factory (some to a better degree than others), the original balance is lost when the pistons, connecting rods or crankshaft are replaced or interchanged with those from other engines. The factory balance job is based on the reciprocating weight of the new pistons and rods. If any replacements or substitutions are made, there’s no guarantee the new or reconditioned parts will match the weights of the original parts closely enough to retain the original balance. This is why Eddies goes to every length to make sure your engine is balanced properly.

Most aftermarket replacement parts are "balanced" to the average weight of the OEM parts, which may or may not be close enough to maintain a reasonable degree of balance inside the engine. Aftermarket crank kits are even worse and can vary considerably because of variations within engine families.

Balancing is even more important when you’re building a performance motor, a stroker motor or an engine that’s expected to turn a lot of rpms or run a lot of miles, so balancing is an absolute must. No engine is going to survive long at high rpms if it’s out of balance. And no engine is going to last in a high mileage application if the crank is bending and flexing because of static or dynamic imbalances."

AlexDphoto

Good stuff ^^

lol apparently I was being a "douche" on CI so I was banned. Apparently Aussie has some sort of complex and is never wrong.

Anyways Prozon, there you have it! just balance it and be worry free!

guy_from_nerk

Yeah that Aussie dude seems like a real ******* that doesn't know a whole lot of anything.

AlexDphoto

Club integra. The only honda site where you are labeled a Douche for correcting an inept moderator.


Anyways prozon so you have e85 in ur area at all?

Prozon

Thanks for the information on balancing.

One place has E85, I am not going to run it though. It's too much out of my way to actually use it. The one station I know of near me, is almost twenty miles away. Actually I need to look around, 91 octane seems to be the most readily available. Not sure about 92/93 octanes. I will have to check on that.

I don't really have a problem with any of the moderators over there. I don't really tend to get into arguments with people, usually if I do it's because i'm in a bad mood for whatever reason and it's almost always one sided.

Josh, are you running sleeves on your motor?

Edit:
Yeah I see what you mean. I think Aussie got a little butt hurt. Some of the moderators over there were not chosen very well.. I don't know what the hell they are moderators for if they just abuse their powers..

guy_from_nerk

I have Benson sleeves in my motor. I wouldn't run anything below 93 on a boosted setup but that is just me, I have seen people run whatever they had available, just requires a really good tune. Speedfactory should be able to hook you up with one of those, everything they touch is fast lol.