SilverLudeSi

Well, before my engine got built I made 240whp at 7 psi and 270whp at 10 psi at stock 9.8:1 compression. When I went to the dyno this weekend, my greddy profec b wasn't working right to start, so we had to use a manual boost controller. My engine build included the following:

-portflow head
-taper bored throttle body
-ported intake manifold with secondary butterflies removed
-je 9:1 pistons
-ge sleeves
-pauter rods

I ended up making just slightly less than I did before at 7 psi, with a max of 300 whp at around 1-1.1 bar (kind of hard to tell b/c of the manual boost controller). My head lifted on this run though, so I need ARP to come out with their h23 studs already. My question is I know I lose about 5-10 whp from the drop in compression, but shouldn't the other mods more than make up for this, especially at 1 bar? My turbo is a t3/t04b which I know is small but I thought could make better power than this. I guess I am going to a t04e compressot or maybe a 60-1. But do you guys think everything else sounds fine, or should I have been making more power?





[Modified by SilverLudeSi, 10:56 PM 11/24/2002]

C-Murdock

for sure the turbo man, cop a 60-1 or T04E....

SilverLudeSi

I agree that I might need a bigger turbo, but those numbers seem kind of low even for that turbo. If you look at the compressor map, the super v t04b compressor map looks pretty similar to the t04e to me.

C-Murdock

Well think about it...Have you seen GudeH23A here ?, He made 330whp with a small t3/t04e.... Clendaniel from here and PO.com made like 250 something with 15psi on the same turbo you have, so do not be suprised...300whp is phenomenal for that turbo I would think...Just get this turbo, and you will be happy, its the same one I run
T3/T04E Ball Bearing
Stage 3 Wheel
.60a/r Compressor Housing, 60 Trim
.82a/r Turbine Housing
This turbo will support up to 550whp no problem, Im expecting to make around 400-450whp with the rest of my mods at 15psi.

Ive seen another hondaprelude.com setup where a guy made 556whp with this turbo on 25psi...

ekb18c

Yes, you will lose a couple of hp from lowering your compression. I really suggest that you upgarde your turbo. t3/t4b is too small for your 2.2

apexii

What compressor/trim level is your turbo?

SilverLudeSi

Clendaniel has a .48 a/r turbine I believe so it's not the same turbo as me. I have a t3/t04b .63 a/r stage 3 turbine with a super v compressor wheel. I think I am going to get a t3/t04e .63 a/r 60 trim. I don't think I want a .82 a/r since my redline is pretty low. I was thinking t3/t60-1 but once again, since I can only rev to 7k I think it would kind of suck especially on a street car.

PM-Performance

didnt you lower your comrepssion ? it could be me , but that might be it .

SilverLudeSi

Yeah I lowered my compression from 9.8:1 to 9:1, but I don't think that should cost more than 5-10 whp. That means that the portflow head, bored tb, and ported im only made an extra 5-10 whp at 10psi. After spending $1000 on a portflow head, I would have expected a little bit more than 5whp, but I guess not.

PM-Performance

well my guess still stands for me , you drop comression you lose power, then you gotta make up for it in other places with your head for example i dont knwo how much power it would make , but it got the numbers up more than what they woulda been without it . also you can boost higher now prob , im sure that was the ultimate goal . boost higher safer.
if lowering the compression was to make more power at the asme boost levels i dont think it works that way .

SilverLudeSi

No, I agree with you. I am sure it is just my compression. I just think I now agree with the people who say ported and polished head isn't really worth the money on a street car. $1000 for 5-10 whp is not what you're used to with FI. Maybe at 25 psi it would make more of a difference.

PM-Performance

damn that much ? woa , we do ours ourselves to a certain level , they dont look as nice as Extruned Hone for example, but they work for us . . . . Oh yea and its free

fastludeh22

iTrader: (1)

well im not sure on the #'s since this is my first time going turbo...but i will be able to tell about the ported head or not...my engine is fully built, everything...except pnp...ill run it like this for a while, then pnp my head and compare..

where do you hit full boost compared? lowering the compression will make it come on a good bit later from what i hear, but the pnp will help it

DLB1994

i had 9:1 je's in my h23 block last year but now i got 10.2:1 arias pistons i should make that much more power at the same boost

the goal is 350-400whp at 15psi with a t3/t04e 60trim

apexii

That's my ballpark goal, with the same trim level, but at 16-18psi.

About the comment above regarding power increases on a worked head, I am doing the same, building everything else to the max, but keeping the head 100% stock. Then i'll get an accurate figure of how much the headwork helped/hurt.

SilverludeSi, it's a shame you're not closer to Philly, because you could gladly try out my t3/t04e .63, 60 trim, stage 3 wheel clipped 10° to see if it works any better with your setup. It has not been used for months, sadly enough. If you ever get up here, hit me up and you can try it out whenever....

SilverLudeSi

Thanks a lot man. I think I am just going to buy one, but I can't boost very high until the h23 arp studs come out anyway.

DLB1994

why do you think your head was lifting

AR Fab

Just to help out....when you port and upgrade valve size(if they did) it slows down the velocity at lower boost levels...and the lower compression contributes to this also. So at lower boost levels the engine will produce less overall power....it will also move the band up higher and change tq. But when the boost gets goes higher the port will accelerate and allow more air flow IE. higher HP and Tq. This is why at 1 bar you made 300hp....wait until this engine sees around 25psi only do this on race gas too....Now the head lifting problem....Were the factory bolts new? If so , were they properly tq. then warmed up/ then 1 at a time, loosened 1/4 and retq'd? When you warm the engine up the head expands about .004" which crushes the MLS then when it cools down there is about a .004" of a gap left....this is why a retq. is very important. Also just because ARP does not have a H23 part number doesnt mean they dont have something that will work. We have found that many other bolts from other applications work or can be modified to work....We have a close relationship with the engineering dept. at ARP. And they have helped us get other applications to with the ones that they dont have part numbers with.

Hope this can help
Howard

SilverLudeSi

The head bolts were new, but were only torqued down once as far as I know. Trust me, ARP doesn't have anything that works for me right now, because I have spent a long time on the phone with them on several occasions. The release date for the h23 kit is jan 6, so I already placed my order.

BoostedH23a1

gude h23 has arp head studs. i need them too..

SilverLudeSi

Yeah i know he does, so do a few other people. They had some prototype sets but they sold them all. They offered me a custom set for $500, but I figured I'd just wait. They said the release date is fairly certain and that it won't be like the h22 studs and keep getting pushed back. I decided to buy a t3/t04e 60 trim so I am going to redyno once I get that and the studs on.

clendaniel

*ahem* actually...it was 275hp @ 5k thank you very much!

You're definitely gonna want to look into a larger compressor, though...I can attest that the 'b' housings start coughing and wheezing when >=1bar in the upper rpms.

--Ian

clendaniel

Nah, mine's a .63 on the hot side...I'm looking at going to a t3/60-1 w/ a .63 a/r to keep it a little more streetable. The smaller a/r might sacrifice a little peak hp than the .82 but it should make more _useable_ hp.

--Ian

DLB1994

you still never said why you think your head was lifting

apexii

The studs would be my guess. I lifed my head once when I cranked up to 1 bar. I was lucky enough to retorque them and get away without any problems. Now I have arp's .