My B18C1 Engine Build/Assembly
06-30-2011, 09:51 AM
#26
Re: My B18C1 Engine Build/Assembly
Yeah, good job so far! I just finished my first build and did the breakin this week. It was nerve racking, but it went alright. I've got to take it back out now due to tranny issues (bought a "completely rebuilt" one). But when I have it out I'm going to throw it back on the stand and open up the rod clearance a little for piece of mind. GL with the rest of the build though and keep us posted.
06-30-2011, 10:11 PM
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Re: My B18C1 Engine Build/Assembly
Well looks like I'm going to have to block off the oil squirters, they hit the piston for sure. When I try to bend them out of the way, then they hit the rod as it rotates. I don't wanna think about them when I'm turning 9000RPM.
06-30-2011, 10:25 PM
#28
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Re: My B18C1 Engine Build/Assembly
Goldern eagle sell a set for a fair price so take a look a them http://www.goldeneaglemfg.com/index....roducts_id=336. The last set i brought over here cost me like £25 posted (around $35). You guys get everything cheaper than us lol.
At least you've checked and found out now anyway. Instead of removing the sump plug and finding out that way.
At least you've checked and found out now anyway. Instead of removing the sump plug and finding out that way.
06-30-2011, 10:27 PM
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Re: My B18C1 Engine Build/Assembly
Okay so next thing I did was to check my ring gap. I inserted the 2nd ring and used the piston to push the ring down into the block to square it up. checked the gap and was at .016 wiesco called for .018-.022 on that ring. Inserted the top ring and it was at .006 Wiesco called for .016-.018 on that ring. So looks like im going to have to pick up a ring file and goto work.
06-30-2011, 10:30 PM
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Re: My B18C1 Engine Build/Assembly
Goldern eagle sell a set for a fair price so take a look a them http://www.goldeneaglemfg.com/index....roducts_id=336. The last set i brought over here cost me like £25 posted (around $35). You guys get everything cheaper than us lol.
At least you've checked and found out now anyway. Instead of removing the sump plug and finding out that way.
At least you've checked and found out now anyway. Instead of removing the sump plug and finding out that way.
06-30-2011, 10:39 PM
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Re: My B18C1 Engine Build/Assembly
Okay so moving on to checking the rod bearing clearances. Now I have a new problem. I installed the new bearings into the new rods, installed the piston and rod, with the pc of plasti-gauge, and followed the torq specs and when I pulled the cap off I saw this.
This is number 2 and 3 cyl. Am I doing something wrong? Its just standard ACL bearings and a stock micro-polished crank. How in the hell can it be so tight??
This is number 2 and 3 cyl. Am I doing something wrong? Its just standard ACL bearings and a stock micro-polished crank. How in the hell can it be so tight??
06-30-2011, 11:06 PM
#32
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Re: My B18C1 Engine Build/Assembly
Good stuff, as for your ring gaps you may want to run them a bit looser than what Wiseco recommends. This will be determined by your power output. Remember its always better to run them a bit looser than tighter.
What are those clearences in thou ? Around .0001 ? Have you got a old set of rods bearing you can measure ? You may need to use OEM bearings for your rods if ACL's are tight. Here are the OEM bearing measurements :
Here is a chart of Honda B series bearing thickness by color. To calculate actual bearing clearance, use the following formula:
BC = IDBT – ODC – (2 x BT)
BC = bearing clearance
IDBT = inside diameter of bearing tunnel (housing bore)
ODC = outside diameter of crank journal
BT = bearing thickness
Main Bearing thickness by color
Blue 2.013-2.010 mm 0.0793”- 0.0791”
Black 2.010-2.007 mm 0.0791”- 0.0790”
Brown 2.007-2.004 mm 0.0790”- 0.0789”
Green 2.004-2.001 mm 0.0789”- 0.0788”
Yellow 2.001-1.998 mm 0.0788”- 0.0787”
Pink 1.998-1.995 mm 0.0787”- 0.0785”
Red 1.995-1.992 mm 0.0785”- 0.0783”
Rod bearing thickness by color
Blue 1.510-1.507 mm 0.0594”- 0.0593”
Black 1.507-1.504 mm 0.0593”- 0.0592”
Brown 1.504-1.501 mm 0.0592”- 0.0591”
Green 1.501-1.498 mm 0.0591”- 0.0590”
Yellow 1.498-1.495 mm 0.0590”- 0.0589”
Pink 1.495-1.492 mm 0.0589”- 0.0587”
Red 1.492-1.489 mm 0.0587”- 0.0586”
ACL are around a green. So using this chart you can work out how many colours to drop. I'd shoot for .00017-.00018. To be honest if it was me at this stage i'd ditch the ACL's and run OEM for the lot at that clearence. I'm not a fan of those Race bearing. I think there to hard i.e. If theres any swarf or debits that havent been cleaned out from the rebuild that makes its way to the bearing it will more than likely score the crank instead of the embedding its self into the bearing surface or scoring the bearing. I'm not saying there no good as they are but just bear it in mind.
What are those clearences in thou ? Around .0001 ? Have you got a old set of rods bearing you can measure ? You may need to use OEM bearings for your rods if ACL's are tight. Here are the OEM bearing measurements :
Here is a chart of Honda B series bearing thickness by color. To calculate actual bearing clearance, use the following formula:
BC = IDBT – ODC – (2 x BT)
BC = bearing clearance
IDBT = inside diameter of bearing tunnel (housing bore)
ODC = outside diameter of crank journal
BT = bearing thickness
Main Bearing thickness by color
Blue 2.013-2.010 mm 0.0793”- 0.0791”
Black 2.010-2.007 mm 0.0791”- 0.0790”
Brown 2.007-2.004 mm 0.0790”- 0.0789”
Green 2.004-2.001 mm 0.0789”- 0.0788”
Yellow 2.001-1.998 mm 0.0788”- 0.0787”
Pink 1.998-1.995 mm 0.0787”- 0.0785”
Red 1.995-1.992 mm 0.0785”- 0.0783”
Rod bearing thickness by color
Blue 1.510-1.507 mm 0.0594”- 0.0593”
Black 1.507-1.504 mm 0.0593”- 0.0592”
Brown 1.504-1.501 mm 0.0592”- 0.0591”
Green 1.501-1.498 mm 0.0591”- 0.0590”
Yellow 1.498-1.495 mm 0.0590”- 0.0589”
Pink 1.495-1.492 mm 0.0589”- 0.0587”
Red 1.492-1.489 mm 0.0587”- 0.0586”
ACL are around a green. So using this chart you can work out how many colours to drop. I'd shoot for .00017-.00018. To be honest if it was me at this stage i'd ditch the ACL's and run OEM for the lot at that clearence. I'm not a fan of those Race bearing. I think there to hard i.e. If theres any swarf or debits that havent been cleaned out from the rebuild that makes its way to the bearing it will more than likely score the crank instead of the embedding its self into the bearing surface or scoring the bearing. I'm not saying there no good as they are but just bear it in mind.
Last edited by rich7777; 07-01-2011 at 02:21 AM.
07-01-2011, 04:45 AM
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Re: My B18C1 Engine Build/Assembly
Good stuff, as for your ring gaps you may want to run them a bit looser than what Wiseco recommends. This will be determined by your power output. Remember its always better to run them a bit looser than tighter.
What are those clearences in thou ? Around .0001 ? Have you got a old set of rods bearing you can measure ? You may need to use OEM bearings for your rods if ACL's are tight. Here are the OEM bearing measurements :
Here is a chart of Honda B series bearing thickness by color. To calculate actual bearing clearance, use the following formula:
BC = IDBT – ODC – (2 x BT)
BC = bearing clearance
IDBT = inside diameter of bearing tunnel (housing bore)
ODC = outside diameter of crank journal
BT = bearing thickness
Main Bearing thickness by color
Blue 2.013-2.010 mm 0.0793”- 0.0791”
Black 2.010-2.007 mm 0.0791”- 0.0790”
Brown 2.007-2.004 mm 0.0790”- 0.0789”
Green 2.004-2.001 mm 0.0789”- 0.0788”
Yellow 2.001-1.998 mm 0.0788”- 0.0787”
Pink 1.998-1.995 mm 0.0787”- 0.0785”
Red 1.995-1.992 mm 0.0785”- 0.0783”
Rod bearing thickness by color
Blue 1.510-1.507 mm 0.0594”- 0.0593”
Black 1.507-1.504 mm 0.0593”- 0.0592”
Brown 1.504-1.501 mm 0.0592”- 0.0591”
Green 1.501-1.498 mm 0.0591”- 0.0590”
Yellow 1.498-1.495 mm 0.0590”- 0.0589”
Pink 1.495-1.492 mm 0.0589”- 0.0587”
Red 1.492-1.489 mm 0.0587”- 0.0586”
ACL are around a green. So using this chart you can work out how many colours to drop. I'd shoot for .00017-.00018. To be honest if it was me at this stage i'd ditch the ACL's and run OEM for the lot at that clearence. I'm not a fan of those Race bearing. I think there to hard i.e. If theres any swarf or debits that havent been cleaned out from the rebuild that makes its way to the bearing it will more than likely score the crank instead of the embedding its self into the bearing surface or scoring the bearing. I'm not saying there no good as they are but just bear it in mind.
What are those clearences in thou ? Around .0001 ? Have you got a old set of rods bearing you can measure ? You may need to use OEM bearings for your rods if ACL's are tight. Here are the OEM bearing measurements :
Here is a chart of Honda B series bearing thickness by color. To calculate actual bearing clearance, use the following formula:
BC = IDBT – ODC – (2 x BT)
BC = bearing clearance
IDBT = inside diameter of bearing tunnel (housing bore)
ODC = outside diameter of crank journal
BT = bearing thickness
Main Bearing thickness by color
Blue 2.013-2.010 mm 0.0793”- 0.0791”
Black 2.010-2.007 mm 0.0791”- 0.0790”
Brown 2.007-2.004 mm 0.0790”- 0.0789”
Green 2.004-2.001 mm 0.0789”- 0.0788”
Yellow 2.001-1.998 mm 0.0788”- 0.0787”
Pink 1.998-1.995 mm 0.0787”- 0.0785”
Red 1.995-1.992 mm 0.0785”- 0.0783”
Rod bearing thickness by color
Blue 1.510-1.507 mm 0.0594”- 0.0593”
Black 1.507-1.504 mm 0.0593”- 0.0592”
Brown 1.504-1.501 mm 0.0592”- 0.0591”
Green 1.501-1.498 mm 0.0591”- 0.0590”
Yellow 1.498-1.495 mm 0.0590”- 0.0589”
Pink 1.495-1.492 mm 0.0589”- 0.0587”
Red 1.492-1.489 mm 0.0587”- 0.0586”
ACL are around a green. So using this chart you can work out how many colours to drop. I'd shoot for .00017-.00018. To be honest if it was me at this stage i'd ditch the ACL's and run OEM for the lot at that clearence. I'm not a fan of those Race bearing. I think there to hard i.e. If theres any swarf or debits that havent been cleaned out from the rebuild that makes its way to the bearing it will more than likely score the crank instead of the embedding its self into the bearing surface or scoring the bearing. I'm not saying there no good as they are but just bear it in mind.
07-01-2011, 04:56 AM
#34
Re: My B18C1 Engine Build/Assembly
Eagle rods seem to give tighter clearances with the ACL bearings. I believe the rod is a little smaller than stock. I switched to red bearings from honda and it got me .0012-.0015" on the rods. Now I'm about to switch to ACL Race HX bearings to get about .0016-.0019" when I pull the motor tomorrow.
Moral of the story is, the Eagle rods run tight. You will need thinner bearings more than likely. And rich is just saying that you should use the chart to get new bearings as the ACL's you have correspond to the green color on the chart. So, if you need about .0004" clearance (for example), you would use the red color vs your ACL's.
Moral of the story is, the Eagle rods run tight. You will need thinner bearings more than likely. And rich is just saying that you should use the chart to get new bearings as the ACL's you have correspond to the green color on the chart. So, if you need about .0004" clearance (for example), you would use the red color vs your ACL's.
07-01-2011, 04:58 AM
#35
Honda-Tech Member
Re: My B18C1 Engine Build/Assembly
With platigauges, you don't necessary need a dial bore gauge. You should be able to get pretty close with them. What was your reading for them in thou ? What did the other two rods come out at ?
Study that chart above and you'll get the picture. Its actually pretty easy to do.
Study that chart above and you'll get the picture. Its actually pretty easy to do.
07-01-2011, 10:10 AM
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Re: My B18C1 Engine Build/Assembly
Well I talked to machine shop and they said the bearings are probably the correct size, it’s the big end rod bore that’s probably too tight. So I’m going to bring them my crank, rods and bearings and they going to lightly hone the big end rod. So we should be good after that.
07-01-2011, 10:59 AM
#38
Honda-Tech Member
Re: My B18C1 Engine Build/Assembly
Well I talked to machine shop and they said the bearings are probably the correct size, it’s the big end rod bore that’s probably too tight. So I’m going to bring them my crank, rods and bearings and they going to lightly hone the big end rod. So we should be good after that.
I'm not 100% sure on your ring gaps so i don't want to say anything just incase i'm wrong. Do this though, check what CP's recommended ring gaps are against your's. If there the same then something close to what Jeff has used should give us a starting point. You may want to start a new thread about your ring gaps though to get more opinions and to see what others have set theres to.
Don't rush what ever you do. Make sure you are 100% sure before you make a move.
07-01-2011, 12:10 PM
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Re: My B18C1 Engine Build/Assembly
That sounds right to me. Give them the set if you can and try and get all the clearence to around what i said.
I'm not 100% sure on your ring gaps so i don't want to say anything just incase i'm wrong. Do this though, check what CP's recommended ring gaps are against your's. If there the same then something close to what Jeff has used should give us a starting point. You may want to start a new thread about your ring gaps though to get more opinions and to see what others have set theres to.
Don't rush what ever you do. Make sure you are 100% sure before you make a move.
I'm not 100% sure on your ring gaps so i don't want to say anything just incase i'm wrong. Do this though, check what CP's recommended ring gaps are against your's. If there the same then something close to what Jeff has used should give us a starting point. You may want to start a new thread about your ring gaps though to get more opinions and to see what others have set theres to.
Don't rush what ever you do. Make sure you are 100% sure before you make a move.
07-01-2011, 12:55 PM
#42
Honda-Tech Member
Re: My B18C1 Engine Build/Assembly
.0017, sorry i added to many earlier. Its a easy mistake. Your machine shop would of put you right anyway as theres such a difference.
07-01-2011, 04:45 PM
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Re: My B18C1 Engine Build/Assembly
Just a suggestion... you should have your machine shop measure your clearances before doing anything. sometimes any movement of the crank while torquing down the caps will throw your measurements off.
07-01-2011, 05:23 PM
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Re: My B18C1 Engine Build/Assembly
Well i check 2 different rods in 2 different spots and 2 different bearings. Im pretty confident that the rod bore "Big end" is to tight.
07-01-2011, 05:40 PM
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Re: My B18C1 Engine Build/Assembly
Im doing the exact same set up tomorrow, eagle rods, wiseco pistons, acl race bearings on a micro polished crank. I will post my results tomorrow or pm me
07-02-2011, 03:24 PM
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Re: My B18C1 Engine Build/Assembly
______UPDATE________
I went to go see Joe at Revmasters Inc (Rod manufacture) and he worked on honing out the big end of the forged rods until the proper clearance of .0017" was reached for each. took about an hr and a half. I have to say very nice man!! Once we got everything done I was about to leave when he said, "Hey you know something, I think I might have a Honda crank around here" He walked over to a shelf and dusted off a box, brought it over and we opened it up. I could her music as the box opened up. OMG its a forged crank, knife edged and fully balanced. He was like here I have had this forever see if you can use it for something or sell it and we can split the money. But he was not 100% sure that its for the B18C1 engine. as the box was marked (Honda/Acura 96) SO I took it home, washed off the residue and oiled it up. I mic'd it to my stock GSR crank and it was identical. So I dropped it into my block and it fit right in. So I set up the plastigauge on all journals torq'd them to spec and they all came back at about .0015" Saaaweeeeet!! SO now I'm going to set up the rod bearings and check the clearance. More To Come!!
I went to go see Joe at Revmasters Inc (Rod manufacture) and he worked on honing out the big end of the forged rods until the proper clearance of .0017" was reached for each. took about an hr and a half. I have to say very nice man!! Once we got everything done I was about to leave when he said, "Hey you know something, I think I might have a Honda crank around here" He walked over to a shelf and dusted off a box, brought it over and we opened it up. I could her music as the box opened up. OMG its a forged crank, knife edged and fully balanced. He was like here I have had this forever see if you can use it for something or sell it and we can split the money. But he was not 100% sure that its for the B18C1 engine. as the box was marked (Honda/Acura 96) SO I took it home, washed off the residue and oiled it up. I mic'd it to my stock GSR crank and it was identical. So I dropped it into my block and it fit right in. So I set up the plastigauge on all journals torq'd them to spec and they all came back at about .0015" Saaaweeeeet!! SO now I'm going to set up the rod bearings and check the clearance. More To Come!!
