duf2570

so here with 91 octane no choice to have alternative to bring up power without pimp the boost at 25 psi to put 450whp on a daily drive...so i ask here(there a lot of tunner/guy's who know a lot about tunning/turbo)if waterneth is ''OVERRATED'' in term of use and benefit on a mid-modded turbo car or a big setup...the reason i ask that its because on my local forum a (suposed)good tunner said to me that the watermeth use is not a good way to go and i should go without it on my setup...im confused..i dont want to up the boost at 22 psi or more to keep my power...i never see or read a bad thing about meth except the fact that more part are risk to fail...

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Your tuner needs to get out more, and understand how it works before he dismisses it that quickly. Its actually a very good way to go provided; 1) your tuner knows how to tune with it for larger power output (which it sounds to me like yours doesn't), 2) the right equipment used. (very rarely do the parts actually fail from the companies that provide meth/water injection kits like AEM, Cooling mist, Devils own, Aquamist -the nicest one-, or Snow performance) Only when they are not hooked up properly from the beginning is there a possibility of failure. Like with anything else, use the right equipment, get tuned properly, you won't have any problem.

You may not have a choice in exactly what boost pressure you make to get to the power you're looking for. It may mean that you have to change to a different turbocharger in order to do it. Honestly, 450whp on 91 octane, though it can be done, is a horrible setup to utilize just because you're afraid of boost pressure. Responsiveness suffers, your car gets laggy, and the risk of detonation gets very high with low-ball fuel like that for such a large amount of power. Let the tuner decide what boost pressure can be done for you, (except maybe this guy you're thinking of going to ) and then see what's needed in order to get to higher horsepower in a more safe and repeatable manner..

Cliffnotes: You heard wrong, Meth/water is fine to use provided you don't use the tuner you've suggested for yourself.

duf2570

Thanks for the reply chef!! this is confirm what ive thinked and read on the web,,, so this is what i plan to do get a real tunner and keep my meth setup( newest aem kit) get a good turbo,,, good to be informed by real person who know what they talking about!!

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

MantisX

I hope this is slightly different advice for 93 octane?

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

For the same hp goal of 450whp, on average, it won't apply exactly the same way from what I've seen in my experience. Its about the threshold for 93 Octane fuel but not a brightline rule.

Flr Power

One thing that should be said is that spraying water/meth with only 1 injector ahead of the throttle body is not the best solution to prevent detonation because the mixture distribution often goes unequal between the cylinders. A much better approach is to use 1 injector per cylinder.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

CaliforniaDad did the same thing... what I call direct port water/meth... I would just imagine that depending on flow needs that it would be hard to find a small enough jet

duf2570

ive got a answer about my local tunner about the same question that i ask on my local forum..ill try to translate in english,,(french)

the tunner said that to me

:i can do map to 15 psi at 24(24 is for the highway guy's who do roll) psi on 91 octane on a forged setup,watermeth is going in problems lands..there nothing better than the race fuel for do drag or high power setup and who want want to run a 25 psi, 450whp over car in street???anyway the boost is limited by the duty cycle of the selenoid and wastege spring,,and on a very good built back pressure is less significant than a ''getto'' setup..so a smaller spring had a better efficiency

duf2570

or keep the actual nozzle but instal it in the middle of the 4 cylinders??not top but better than only one cylinder...find 4 nozzles who equal one big...hummmm,,,heven if i take the smalless one of aem kit they will spray to much juice

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

That won't work. That would only feed the last two cylinders on the manifold

People use nitrous jets as well and they get pretty small... aem makes a nice nozzle for each cylinder.. look at CaliforniaDads build thread.

duf2570

there not on the website or im searching with the wrong eyes

0xenocron

I 100% agree with everything this smart man just said...

duf2570

And what about the corosive side of watermeth...?? The tunner said to me that meth destroy trottle body bearing??and the octane booster effect is overrated ??

duf2570

This is why i will go in this way... Keep my meth and if with the new turbo i can have the same power with less boost i will be happy

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

That's why it's meth/water and not straight methanol. That's where the cooling effect comes in. Your tuner is confusing the use of a methanol kit over ethyl alcohol, which IS corrosive if not used quickly. But only straight drag racers with dedicated setups ever use that stuff.

As for using one nozzle over a "direct port" approach, I tend to disagree. We've used several single nozzle setups on over 30psi of pressure on keth/water kits on evolutions with no issues. But we also used the correct sized nozzle.. Calidad's issue was not from the fact that he used a single nozzle. It was because he accidentally pinched the wired connecting his fail-safe device on his kit. Accidents happen.

Bottom line, your guy needs to come to the states a bit more. 450whp on good boost pressure is very doable.. At the limits of street use, but doable nonetheless..

No more listening to this individual. It might be time to look st other personnel for your purpose

MalcolmV8

Water meth works fantastic. I have installed it on a couple cars and love the results.

Here's where I tucked it under the bumper on my buddies 2011 GT500. It's completely hidden and out of view



I went with a dual nozzle setup that sprays right after the throttle body but before the blower

Water/meth jets on the right and nitrous jets on the left



Another view of the water/meth



After some test & tuning on the dyno we found best results with a single 650 ml jet so we ended up removing the second water/meth jet.

I took the same approach on my 03 Cobra and removed the front bumper assembly and tucked away the kit. Unfortunately the Cobra's reservoir is to small up there so it will need to be relocated to the trunk this winter. The GT500 had more space and was able to run a larger reservoir so it could stay with the clean hidden system under the bumper.





Both vehicles got a J&S Vampire installed to keep close tabs on detonation





I can tell you without a doubt water/meth works. It's fantastic for increasing your octane and allowing you to run more timing or boost or both. We found the limits of our vehicles on the dyno while watching the Vampire for the slightest detection of detonation and then tuned with water/meth and were able to surpass those points and put in more timing/boost.

Had any cylinders not been receiving the water/meth those specific cylinders would have started detonating and we would have seen it on the Vampire but nothing.

If ever I decide to really turn up the boost on the civic you can be sure I'll have a water/meth kit on there.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

It all depends on the ratio you run and how often you use it

MalcolmV8

I spray a 50/50 mix which kicks in around 2 ~ 5 lb of boost range. It's on a progressive controller that sprays more water/meth as the boost goes up.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

Yea that's how most people do it, 50/50 and progressive. Depending on what I want to try to do with 93 octane I'll probably end up with a 70/30 mix just to see what limit I can push lol

B and B

iTrader: (3)

**** is pretty corrosive..screwed up my girls teeth


Damn u wantboost..beat me to the meth pic..

duf2570

this is my next plan..when a guy's said that meth/water is not a good way to go for help my setup..not reliable and not enought efficiency...and to much part risk to fail..and give me this alternative:

optimise your setup,full sleeved block to old 30 psi and or a 3 ways valve with a auxiliary tank,second map,one selenoid kit and a complete rewire of the the pump and race fuel<<<

in this alternative there also a lot thing that can fail like meth/water injection,,,and if a can get 400whp on 15psi vs 18-20 psi on stock sleeve i will go in that way for sure

kte324

iTrader: (2)

We used AEM water/meth kit on a 59mm turbo gsr @ 19psi and had very good results. We had the meth kit turn on at its lowest setting of either 9psi or 11psi, can't really remember. Used it to help with detonation and keeping the car more reliable on pump gas. The car has over 10k miles and gets beat to hell and back.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Again, stop worrying about boost pressure numbers. Look at the power level that you want to achieve and use THAT as your litmus test. But what he's saying doesn't make much sense. Is there anyone else in that region that you trust to go to that is actually knowledgeable?

duf2570

yes..there some good tunner...and i will go him...if going to U.S for tunning my car wasnt a issue anyway im now running meth(and stay like this) for about 2 years(cobalt ss s/c stage 5 and my current car) and never had any issue at all and in my cobalt was a the top of the oem blower(m62) 25 psi of boost,iat2 at 160f at wot,,22deg timing..start to knock at 165f and i was at 158km/h in third gear.......i was 70/30 meth...no issue