I know 8psi is about as far as a stock B18B1 setup should be taken (i.e. stock 240cc injectors, etc). Mine was fine at 6psi, but at 9+ psi, I started getting detonation. Dialed it down to about 0.60 BAR (I think a bit over 8psi) and it seemed ok, maybe pushing it a little hard.

I've torn the motor apart, to install Eagle rods and Arias pistons, with a lower compression headgasket on the way. I don't have the money to sleeve the block for now. And I've got stainless steel valves. I have no idea what the final compression ratio will be. So the max reasonable boost I can push will have to be guess work.

With the stock injectors, I'll have to stay at about 8-9psi. But assuming I put in a Hondata 2b, RC 440 injectors, and have access to the best Y-band O2 tuning people with a dyno.... What do you guys think the max reasonable boost is that I can push on the street? I'm thinking 18psi. I know a guy with a stock D-series who's pushing 14psi, but only beacuse it was very well tuned and doesn't detonate.

I'm just concerned about the block. By not being sleeved, do you guys think 18psi is pushing it too much? For daily driving I might dial back to 12-14psi.

I just want some opinions. Some people I know, who I respect their input, say 18psi should be fine. But, of course, there are those who think the block will just shatter to pieces...

When I took the pistons out today, everything basically looked good, but there was one visible scratch in cylinder 4, and some scorching here and there. We'll be doing a complete rebuild with mostly new parts. I'll keep the stock crank and cams. But I'm not upgrading the valves or retainers (harder to find for LS, but I don't think necessary since I'm not reving over 6800 anyway).

 

We just put 12.5psi on a stock ls with hondata, 550cc injectors and got 276whp and 235ft lbs I think it was. Its DIRep's car maybe you can get the dyno from him.

art

 

About a week before rebuilding the motor, we were just playing around and installed a manual boost controller (like 2 minutes to do). The TiAL wastegate did a good job at holding the boost steady. Man, the difference between 0.4 and 0.6 BAR was pretty amazing to me with the T3/T4 that I've got (that's an increase of about 5.8psi to 8.8psi). My baseline dyno at 5.8psi was around 170whp -- relatively weak. Going to 8psi really woke up the turbo in the mid and high end. I wouldn't be surprised if I started to peak over 200whp by that little increase in boost. Of course, at the 1/8th mile track, it ran about the same times -- the damn thing takes so long to spool. A 1/4 mile track is where i'd see an improvement. I really felt the improvement while on the highway. It was starting to get scary fast! But anyway, no dyno numbers or anything, we've already started on the rebuild... We're hoping to hit about 300whp, properply tuned of course.

But my friend is crazier than me -- he's planning to run 30psi on a built D-series motor. It's sleeved with all high grade internals, and he's serious about pushing 400+ whp with a D16Y. He's nuts....

 

They like boost...they just don't tell you that.

 

Are you talking about Jay?

art

 

AutoSol, your friend with the D16, what are his mods and what size turbo is he running? Is he on HT?
I am currently building my D16 for about 250-300 whp. I will be using a T3/T04E.
What are your spec's on your turbo?

Thx
Eric

 

Arturbo, I don't know any Jay. My friends name is Mike. He's got a hell of a sleeper -- looks like a stock red Civic EX, simple Enkei 16" rims, and his own 2.5" exhaust piping (but no chromitized muffler). He's already at 230whp on his D16, with RC 440's, Hondata 2b, and 2-3 hours of tuning. As far as I know (from what he says), the motor is stock (except maybe for the headgasket). He has a whole other motor that he's building, with the sleeve and all that. I thought he was insane today, when he started talking about trying 50psi. Sure, the block might handle it, but there's more to it. His is a smaller turbo, 18G or something, with a small intercooler, and a massive radiator (larger than the Fluidyine, I think the brand is Kyoto or something). I don't think he's on HT, but he loves to talk about his 1.6L D-series spanking the hell out of V8's. I'll tell him to post around here (he usually goes by OscarMyer)...

BTW, a T3/T4 on a D16 seems excessive -- I think the spool up would suck, unless you've got a small amount of nitrous for off the line... But, maybe it wouldn't be that bad...

Hey, what about my question: at what point does it become worth spending the $700-$1000 to sleeve your block?? I guess the answer is just whenever the block starts to crack. My only other answer is, assuming that the car is very well tuned, about 20psi is the limit..

 

What's up Steve, decided to rebuild, huh? What compression are you going with? The stock sleeves are usually pretty realiable to about 325-350whp. I know alot of people are running more than that on stock sleeves, but I said reliable. If you are spending all the time and money to rebuild and plan to make over that you might as well sleeve it and not have to worry about it. Hey, are you keeping the automatic tranny in it? Don't really know if it will handle that much power. Anyways, at 18 psi you should be over 300whp, so you may want to look into sleeves. Also, if you sleeve it and go 84mm bore, it will help alot with the spool up!! You would basically have a b20. This would be very beneficial to you with the automatic! Something to think about!

 

Well, I didn't NEED a rebuild. But JIS (www.jisengine.com) offered me a sponsorship where they'll do all the labor in the rebuild, I just need to supply parts. They've got millions of dollars of machines and all they do is motor rebuilds. I didn't want to pass up the chance. Mike with the red Civic hooked me up with this deal, since JIS wants to do both a D and B-series build up (yep, guinea pigs!) and start getting their name out. We'll see how it goes.

I was just looking for a rough idea about how far a stock B-series block should be pushed (based on peoples experience) without re-sleeving. I'll be conservative and keep it at 12-14psi for daily driving. With help from JIS, it's not a big deal to yank the motor out, tear it down, and sleeve it later (i.e. after I save up for a sleeve). I'm only shooting for about 250-300whp for now anyway. But for the past year, it's been running fine at around 170-200whp (minus the transmission troubles I've had).

John at Allstate Transmission claims the Honda auto tranny should be able to hold 400+ hp (not stock, but after they rebuilt it, of course), and they did give me a 6mo warranty. But, honestly, I don't think the tranny will hold either. We'll see, eh? If it even LAST 6months, I'll be impressed

For now we decided on standard bore sized pistons (keeps things simple). I also thought about just going with a B20 block altogether. But I couldn't find a core for cheap, so we just decided to use the B18B that I had already. I didn't think about the larger bore helping the spool up! I get killed off the line just about all the time, then when boost finally hits strong at about 3500rpms, it hauls ***. It's like the ships in Star Wars -- you see them lull along, speeding up, then all of a sudden hit hyperspace. Yep, that's me... (ha!) Launching is a problem -- I still get 2.4 sec 60' times. But oh well, this is still mostly intended to be a daily driver, where I want mid range kick *** power.

Oh, and for the compression, I'm not sure. The pistons might drop me to 8.8, and the thicker head gasket might make me as low as 8.5 or so. But we'll be port matching and polishing, so hopefully it won't be any WORSE off the line than it is now I guess a shot of NOS off the line would help.... hehe (nah, no NOS for me).

Thanks for the info about the block. I thought 18psi might be a little too ambitious. I'll think about the sleeve some more, but it probably won't happen during this rebuild....

 

Mine T3/4 does pretty good, but for lower boost like I'm running I would bet a T3 would be more ideal.

 

If you tear it apart later to sleeve it you will have to buy pistons again. The low compression and stock bore is gonna kill you off the line. If they are doing the machine work you can get sleeves pretty cheap and it WILL save you money in the long run, not to mention make a huge difference in performance! If you have low compression pistons at least use a stock head gasket. There is no reason to use a thicker one with those pistons. Stock ones don't blow when installed correctly.

 

I hope you're talking about fuel pressure It's a rare day that a car sees 50psi of boost, if I'm not mistaken.

 

If ur tearing it apart, sleeve it. Once u sleeve a motor its pretty much ur block forever. In the long run it will be cheaper to sleeve the first time then crack sleeves and rebuild later.

also, ur probably gonna need larger then 440cc injectors if u plan to run 18psi.

 

steve...you're going to have a crazy automatic! how has the tranny been doing btw?

 

Hey Kevin, the auto is holding up pretty good after the last rebuild. I've noticed a little flaring/slipping sometimes between 3rd and 4th. It might just be normal as the tranny is now wearing in, and it only really happens if I'm at about half throttle (where I don't think the tranny can make up its mind on whether to up shift or not). But in the past, it's been a sign of a tranny starting to fail when the slipage gets really bad.

Well, I'll think hard about the sleeve. We wanted to get the car back on the road in a couple weeks, but there isn't any real hurry since it's my 2nd car anyway. You all got me convinced that it would be better to just get it over with now. Not sleeving now would be like buying a turbo, but not getting an intercooler and BOV. It would work, but why not do it right so it'll last??

On the otherhand, I could just stick with 12-14psi on this block. And in the mean time, I could hunt around for another B-series block that I can bore out and sleeve.

And tony, I'll stick with the stock headgasket, and re-think the bore size. Thanks for the ideas.

 

DIRep took the words straight outta my mouth, sleeve it now. At the time when Tony put together my motor I was too poor for sleeves, was gonna boost it but the head lifted, so its time for a new set-up in a different car, I wont make the sleeving mistake twice.

As for the bore size increase, ask quikb20 about the difference between 1.8 and 2.0.....granted his motor isn't running at full potential, but you can actually feel the turbo spool now (@6.5 psi) as opposed to before where it was at 6.5 psi before you could look at the boost guage.

Chris, you should get your brother to make that video of you describing turbo lag in fouth gear on the freeway and host it, it would clear up some questions on this board about spool time.

Like Tony said, forget that low compression headgasket, it just means less response, less torque, and less fun.