I'll be putting my car back together soon & just had some questions.



Q:

1) aside from buying SS ARP manifold studs, is there any solution prevent turbo manifold nuts from backing off from stock studs?
...... I doubt locktite would work.


2) Is there a special sealant used on IM/EM studs which go into the head?
I hate taking off nuts & taking the stud out with it.
Would a tiny bit of JB weld be okay?















thanks

 

No need for JB weld. EVER for that kind of stuff. Typically lock washers are used for those if necessary, or the copper manifold Nut/stud kit Phil at Spoolin' sells.
http://www.spoolinperformance.com/-c-52_42.html

JB weld.. I should hurt you. j/k

 

hum copper nuts... will look into it.


I used lock washers on my extended IM studs after summer of driving i pulled off the motor and notice 2 of the 9 nuts missing.

1 of the exhaust manifold nuts missing

2 of the five compressor housing missing


haha
can't blame me for trying to find additional insurance that won't break the bank.





jb weld... "just a tiny bit no?"
...hahaha

 

go on mcmastercarr, your looking for M8 set screws (40mm for stock length), you can get them with any style locking cup on the end that you like. I always install them in the head with blue loctite, and torque them down. Then i always run serrated flanged M8 nuts.

 

94560A080 good nuts to use if you dont want serrated flange

http://www.mcmaster.com/#hex-locknuts/=lv1yzw

 

I've been buying the locking tab copper ones off ebay in packs of 20 or so for $15.

Just got these this year after a recommendation from friend.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/8mm-Exhaust-Manifold-Lock-Nuts-M8x1-25-Pack-of-10-Made-in-Germany-/160883926161?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item25756de491&vxp=mtr

 

I plan on using these, I know people here have used them with good results. Stainless steel and no ARP pricetag

http://www.ebay.com/itm/316-Racing-E...-/110960443409

Or these, extended studs and serrated lock nuts that have been black nitride coated. Don't know what material the studs are though,

http://www.ebay.com/itm/INTAKE-EXHAU...-/321088387529


The intake and exhaust side use the same studs

 

The copper nuts are good too, the nut has a deformed thread section attached below the nut itself. They tend to stay put.

I personally will be using studs with lock nuts (deciding between what I posted above) but I will drill each nut and safety wire everything, manifold head flange, turbine flange, etc.
Locknuts are great but on there own there's a chance they will still loosen or back all the way off.
While it takes a lot of time and patience, safety wiring is the only real way to insure nothing loosens or moves. (Remember 8 turns per inch is the aerospace standard for proper safety wire application)

 

black oxide will rust in due time, they are coated to prevent galling in the head, but they have a much higher tensile strength, makes them good for holding up turbo manifolds and such. 18-8 stainless steel is the "marine steel" that you see commonly advertised on ebay.

 

thanks for the suggestions

 

Don't forget to put a tiny bit of anti-seize on the exhaust side. You will thank yourself when it's time to take it apart.

 

You can always wire them in, in the places you can use bolts. More time consuming sure, but you should NEVER have a failure. You could get crazy and drill the nuts/studs as well, but it isn't exactly repeatable. Serrated nuts or "crushed" nuts are your best options aside from wire locks.

 

I always drill nuts and bolts, its a bitch until you get a system down, then it's pretty easy.

I normally give nuts and bolts 3 holes, so I can wire them together no matter how they align when torqued. I got way too good at it from doing all the safety wiring on our superbikes and supersport bikes

 

Never really had any trouble on my setup with manifold nuts backing off. I've always installed the studs in fairly snug. Lubricated the outer thread section with a touch of ATF (for its high-heat, high lubricity capabilities) and tighten in sequence (basically start from center and tighten back/forth outwards. Then after 10-20 complete heat cycles I re-tighten in the same sequence over again. Heat cycling can/will cause bolts and nuts to loosen progressively due to the expansion and contraction of the metals. Also the differences in materials from stud and nut can accelerate this significantly.
Try to use the same materials for stud and nut. That way the expansion and contraction are the same. Always worked for me.
Ran my street setup hard last year only tightened the manifold and turbo fasteners once.

 

What sort of driving? I know our sr20s in our drift only cars had huge problems with manifold nuts backing off due to extreme vibrations and heat cycles. I can't count the number of nuts I spot welded on turbine inlet flanges.

I normally safety wire just for peace of mind, I became victim of the turbo flange nuts backing off on my sr20. Like enough that the gasket broke (mls) no fun limping home making only 2-4 psi when the car was tuned for and ran 14psi

Plus on things like our bikes and even cars, class/track rules require a minimum mandatory of things tonne safety wired, for example, oil drain bolt, oil filler cap, radiator cap, radiator drain, brake masters, etc. Normally any fluid retaining related items and some we did extra, like the axles on the bikes, fork bolts, shock bolts, triple tree bolts. Last thing you want is a nut backing off when you're doing 200mph down the back straight of road Atlanta coming into the bus stop.

Now I've started doing it out of habit and peace of mind. Takes a lot of time and effort but the end result is well worth the trouble.

 

^^ Yeah, I am referring to a frequently summer season driven street car with some racing here and there. I am very familiar with racecar prep and track regulations that require wired fluid holding fasteners as I work periodically for a race team that does many types of racing from "chump" car series, all the way up to Grand AM/Rolex series. This is NOT where my suggestions were directed. I was assuming the OP's car was a "street" car for the most part and just suggested some remedies that have worked for me in the past and currently.

For a racecar application, I completely agree with wiring/cotter pinned fasteners depending on purpose. For a regularly driven street setup, items like manifold studs and turbo flange studs, I would make written list of things to check over during every maintenance interval and retighten as necessary. I can vouche for the stainless manifold studs and nuts working well and currently using Full-race coated-steel turbo flange studs and nuts working well on my current setup. Only retightened once and I drive and beat on the car regularly.

 

My car will be dual purpose street car but then convert into track **** with a simple whee
/tire change and some suspension tweaking, like preload, moving the adjusters (my coilovers have 80 clicks of adjustment, so very fine, precise control) and be done with it.

I'll safety wire every single nut bolt that could cause issues if one backed off, like I said, tons of work at first but will save you a lot of headache down the road

 

I would also like to add, it really boils down to setup. Say you have a small frame turbo and a not so easily accessible manifold, even on a street car, the average owner isn't going to spend a few hours taking stuff apart to check some nuts and bolts. It is best to give it your all the first time around... unless you like problems of course.

 

^exactly

I don't like having to go back and do things over, so its worth that extra effort and trouble in the beginning to do it right